GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
Heard that red batts don't last long from AC's... the Red we rented from Panavision used Anton Bauer's...
Interview with Canon's Larry Thorpe on C300 - Explains a lot
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Heard that red batts don't last long from AC's... the Red we rented from Panavision used Anton Bauer's...
I'm speaking about official prices in france. 14000€ for f3. 14500€ for C300 in the most serious shops here (preordering process open). scarlet 13500€ (based on the order page i've seen with my eyes).
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
I'm in the US... but if they threw in the vat for the price of a plane ticket and hotel.. I wouldn't mind flying over... seeing if the old rumor about our family coming from France then going to Scotland and then coming here is true...
I'm hearing Epic users saying around 30 minutes per REDvolt. Hopefully Scarlet will squeze a bit more out, but I wouldn't be comfortable with just 2... and they take a while to charge back up (2/3 hours, I think I read)
Please remember that alot of us live or work in places that don't have huge rental facilities. I did a shoot in Iceland this summer, rental wasn´t an option and you could drive for miles without seeing another person, let alone somewhere you could power up your gear. Being able to use long lasting batteries is a major plus.
With all that said, I have no idea of the battery/consumption of the C300. I would guess that it is pretty good and cheap though.
Yes, but you need those extras with canon too depending on what you shoot. anyway, i was just telling that to be more fair. because it was untrue to say that canon is ready to shoot and scarlet is not at the same price.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Again, this is opinion. I don't see Canon saying this camera is a test. That they intend small runs with this camera. Just because it doesn't sell as many as the HDSLR doesn't mean it isn't intended for full production for the likes of Alexa, Epic, F3. Surely they consider selling that many, and surely those aren't tests either. Different cameras have different production scopes. They can't seem to build Alexa's fast enough for the demand. And of course this is my opinion, but it is quite possible that the sensor in the C300 has a lower yield because it's higher performance than their other CMOS imagers.
But again, YOU think this is an upgraded 7D. Just because the sensor is the same size doesn't mean the technology is an upgrade. This is a sensor designed for motion picture used for motion picture. Why would they EVER put this sensor in a DSLR for stills? It's not high enough resolution. Again, all opinion.
I for one am a bit scared to think what a camera from Canon at the $5k price point would be. Obviously you'd think it would be less powerful than the C300, and that's kind of a scary thought considering the reduction of ANY of the specs it has.
Sure, I agree that the thread can get a bit sidetracked, but at the same time, these are people comparing OTHER cameras to what the C300 offers. There are people making claims to why one camera is superior or inferior to the C300. Why wouldn't people disprove one another if they think the information is incorrect? That's the point of "discussing" these things.
Given the price point of the C300, it only makes sense to compare to the Scarlet-X, which of course is derived from the Epic and there is experience, and the F3. That is what has been going on. I personally would rather have more information about the different opinions and what others perceived to be problems then not enough. And as long as it is constructive, and people are helpful to one another, more can be learned.
Clearly there are people here that don't understand what is happening in a digital camera when it clips. Now some people are learning what is happening. In fact, this whole discussion got me motivated to write a utility for fixing the highlight rolloff in Panasonic/Sony footage because I understand what is going on. So in the end, for those that want to use it, I am probably going to save them a lot of time. Even further, now that I've spent a great deal of time studying Canon, Sony and Panasonic's methods for dealing with clipping, I can say that the Sony/Panasonic method is actually keeping MORE information, but that it looks worse. Just goes to show that a *technically* better and more information retaining method is not aesthetically pleasing AT ALL. Which is why we discuss, compare, contrast, and more importantly, get a feeling for what others think as well.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
going from the 12,000 euro... I came up with $16175.99
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
And that's not the whole truth either
The F3 and C300 need the same thing to use in the field; Media, Batteries and at least a lens. So really, neither of them are ready to go immediately out of the box!
How many batteries and how much SxS to me is pretty similar in terms of comparable need. DEFINITELY a lot cheaper than the Scarlet-X though, and as Timur points out, the SSD record time and battery length are REALLY going to cost someone a lot on a long day of shooting. I've shot 15 hours with my FS100 shutting it off between takes on ONE battery. That came with it. With the AF100 I have shot 15 hours with 3 batteries (doing the same thing) and 2 being aftermarket. With the 7D I have shot 15 hours with about 5 batteries. From the specs I have read on the default battery, looks like it would have similar performance to the AF100, which is great. But, I would NOT be running with one battery with the C300, I'd have 3 given what they've said.
And I'd also be shooting to two CF cards. Given I believe it can mirror, I'd rather have a backup just in case since I can.
what's the price of the sony f3 in US? 13500$? here it's 14000€ (19000$). so there is something more than just VAT, other costs and taxes that are applied in france. anyway, sony and canon products are coming from japan. it should not be really different. price in $=price in euros.
I think this is true. In the interviews I posted (reminder: I edited the OP of this thread to list all four interviews), Larry mentions that they set up an internal Canon sales force of 23 people to sell directly to major clients like networks and big broadcasters. To me that says there is a demand there already that we don't know about.
Canon is smart and conservative. They're not the type that thinks "If we build it, they will come." Or to build up a sales force of 23 peope to do nothing. Instead I bet during the development of the camera, they reached out to all these big clients and asked them what they want and how much they're willing to pay. Heck, they might have even lined up commitments already sort of like the way Boeing and Airbus has "launch customers." And just like airplanes or cars, big clients don't pay MSRP. If you're a network or a rental house buying 10 of these cameras, I bet they there is some dealing going on.
But even if you're an owner-operator, there will be dealers to buy from and at this time we don't know the exact street price in the US. Some are reporting the street price in Sweden is less than the F3.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
I don't remember the record times of the Scarlet or Red right now...
I believe that a 64mb cf card on the Canon will record a 160 minutes (get 2 one to mirror the other)... that's more than enough for a feature on a daily basis.. unless Michael Bay is directing....
I think the batteries are 3 hours... so lets just say 2 hours... I think I saw same batt is used in another Canon and it was like a hundred bucks...
Will have to check out what the price of things are to really compare cards and batts... but I thought a scandisk cf was around $250 some where where the 64mb card from Red is like $995... but like I said I don't remember the recording times on the Red... but the Canon going with 2 cards one to mirror the first would still be half the cost of 1 Red card...
I believe that a 64mb cf card on the Canon will record a 160 minutes (get 2 one to mirror the other)... that's more than enough for a feature on a daily basis.. unless Michael Bay is directing....
I think the batteries are 3 hours... so lets just say 2 hours... I think I saw same batt is used in another Canon and it was like a hundred bucks...
Will have to check out what the price of things are to really compare cards and batts... but I thought a scandisk cf was around $250 some where where the 64mb card from Red is like $995... but like I said I don't remember the recording times on the Red... but the Canon going with 2 cards one to mirror the first would still be half the cost of 1 Red card...
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According to Canon:
What kind of battery life can I expect during video recording, at normal temperatures?
Assuming both the camera's eye-level electronic viewfinder and LCD monitor are active, the following chart (based on Canon Inc. test methods) gives an idea. Please note that if SDI is on, power consumption increases slightly (by approximately 3~5%), with a corresponding drop in available recording time per battery charge.
| Quality setting | Approx. Power consumption |
[TD="width: 74"]BP-955
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]BP-950G
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]BP-970G
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]BP-975
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"] 50 Mb/sec.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]11.4 W
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]265 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]280 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"] 35 Mb/sec.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]11.3 W
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]265 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]285 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"] 25 Mb/sec.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]11.2 W
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]190 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]265 min.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 74"]285 min.
[/TD]
What is the camera's maximum rated power consumption?
20.9 W, based on Canon Inc. test methods.
The camera comes with the Canon Battery Pack BP-955 ($175) and a Compact Power Adapter (CA-940) which is used with the included DC Cable to power the camera from AC power.
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BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
One nice feature of the Scarlet is the ability to change lens mounts. The Canon doesn't have this. I don't know how feasible it is to order a C300 w/ one mount, either EOS or PL, and buy third-party mount adapters to use Nikon, PL and EOS lenses.
On the otherhand, I do think that the Canon's XLR inputs and ND's should not be overlooked. Those--plus long battery life and recording time, cheap media and esay codec for post--will make this camera applealing for cetain types of shooting.
It's in the package.
Sorry, that is true.
GaryinCalifornia
Veteran
I think I'd go with the EF mount for now on either camera... like I said borrow my friends l primes... then go with the canon ef cine primes when they're released...
also just thinking... like when I purchased my dvx... I got so much work... by the time I got to use it... the hvx was out... so knowing my luck.... I'd go with the Canon get lots of producing work.. and then by the time I'll be able to use it.. the C400 will be out.. not bad thinking since I'll make more as a producer for hire... lol
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Erich,
Thanks for your thoughts.
I'm very interested in the EPIC, but had some bad experiences with the original One, & have been shy ever since.
Almost sounds as if RED needs some 3rd party software developers to tackle their RAW processing, but as I understand it they won't embrace this approach. Too bad.
Best,
Bern
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Moebius was the only film I was interested in seeing at Paramount as it was shot in a simple lighting scenario I know well. And it did look great. Sharp without being crunchy, with great tonality, & not overly contrasty.
But even this film is hard to draw many conclusions from as who knows what was done in post, & desert light is much more filled than typical daylight scenarios.
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Yeah, I asked if the Scarlet-X had ND and never got a response. From what I have gathered, that is a no. While I live without built in ND on the FS100, I *really* miss the built in ND from the AF100. It just makes A LOT less hassle. Also, and something I didn't consider, is that if you are having problems with reflections of the sensor on the back of the lens, it helps reduce that as well. Having the ND in front of the lens, and I have tested this quite a bit, just adds more of a chance of reflections showing up in the shot from light sources.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
I'd buy it!
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