Interview with Canon's Larry Thorpe on C300 - Explains a lot

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nuno Dias said:
Yep, there's that sharp 'TV' look. Beautiful images at sunset, that's what 'ya all like isn't it?
Click to expand...
I have to admit, Nuno. You're a bit combative. I mean really, what do you care what other people like in cameras? How does it really affect you? If you see a guy on the street with a RED Epic, do you run up to him and try to convince him that his camera is sub-par? Thats kinda the beauty of today, we have lots of choices, and NONE of them are perfect. Even film isn't perfect. Chill out a bit and go shoot something on whatever camera gets the job done.
 
dustylense said:
I have to admit, Nuno. You're a bit combative. I mean really, what do you care what other people like in cameras? How does it really affect you? If you see a guy on the street with a RED Epic, do you run up to him and try to convince him that his camera is sub-par?
Click to expand...

That's what I do, every time. Then I offer him to swap his sub-par Epic for the contents of my wallet.

Hasn't worked yet, damn it!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
haha nuno, you crossed the line. nobody can take you seriously now. you have a serious problem with red. it seems you're the fan boy here. accept the fact that people don't always have to think like you. excuse me but you are just a random guy with his own taste, like we all are. you like the alexa image, great. i personally think it looks soft and flat and lacks the spirit of film, kind of no signature. but i've seen "drive" and i loved the movie and the image. you can say "i don't like the kind of image of red" but please stop with your comments about how right you are because you're not, and i'm not, and nobody is. just shoot.
 
Last edited:
ArthurD and dustylense, this is not about me, don't turn this over. It was only about me when I expressed my opinion on the Red's image. You don't have to take me seriously, this is a blog, and the people I need to take me seriously, already do.

It just seems that one can't say nothing even slightly negative about Red and you're a troll, an instigator and inflammatory. Reminds me of those religious loonies reading the bible out loud on the streets... seriously, that's how it feels among some of you.

I kind of find this just amusing. Don't get me wrong, this kind of attitude comes from all sides, but it got me by surprise I must say, when I was just trying to find out about an image problem I thought might be inherent from the Red sensor, and instead I started getting crap from people, then I found out it was because the problem I was pointing out was from Red! 'Oh, right, the fanboys...'

Now this is like trying to get out of an argument with an old fascist taxi driver!

And don't worry, I'll be shooting soon, I'm at writing stage now, so I need diversion... I got my awards for my films, I'm feeling good. The future's bright. Hope all of yours is also.
 
Nuno Dias said:
ArthurD and dustylense, this is not about me, don't turn this over. It was only about me when I expressed my opinion on the Red's image. You don't have to take me seriously, this is a blog, and the people I need to take me seriously, already do.

It just seems that one can't say nothing even slightly negative about Red and you're a troll, an instigator and inflammatory. Reminds me of those religious loonies reading the bible out loud on the streets... seriously, that's how it feels among some of you.

I kind of find this just amusing. Don't get me wrong, this kind of attitude comes from all sides, but it got me by surprise I must say, when I was just trying to find out about an image problem I thought might be inherent from the Red sensor, and instead I started getting crap from people, then I found out it was because the problem I was pointing out was from Red! 'Oh, right, the fanboys...'

Now this is like trying to get out of an argument with an old fascist taxi driver!

And don't worry, I'll be shooting soon, I'm at writing stage now, so I need diversion... I got my awards for my films, I'm feeling good. The future's bright. Hope all of yours is also.
Click to expand...

I just don't get your approach. Thats all. I personally don't like anything RED, other than the fact that they have nudged the industry to release better products. If I had to choose, I would rather work with the Alexa just due to workflow. But I'm not about to tell people that RED is inferior to anything. Some rather BIG features are being films on them as we speak. If the Epic was not a good tool, P. Jackson would not be filming The Hobbit on them. THE HOBBIT! What do you think the budget is on this film? How much will this film gross? Does that mean the Epic is the best camera in the world? NO! It means that it's a tool. And if it's good enough for Jackson, I'm sure it's good enough for many. And I highly doubt there will be much clipping in The Hobbit. AND I'M SURE it will look stunning. You've posted examples of RED footage. OK, those guys are tourist shooters compared to the team working on THE HOBBIT! Next Christmas, sit back and enjoy the story of THE HOBBIT, filmed on RED Epic. As I said, my wife and dog will care less about what camera it was filmed on. They will be paying attention to the story (yes, my dog is small enough to sneak into the theatre).
Happy shooting and pick the gun that works for YOU, and YOU only....Because if it can't hold my wife's attention, it really doesn't matter what you pressed record on.
 
Nuno Dias said:
Do you realize this how abstract this stamtent is? Amazing images, on who's eyes? Do you mean, technically amazing images? Do you mean that as soon as you grade them and they fall to pieces its not the cameras fault anymore, but the Dp's or the colorist? So, in your line of thinking, one has to use the files from the Epic, as they are out of the camera and straight onto cinema screens!

The Epic can only ever dream of looking as gorgeous and perfectly structured as the Alexa does or the C300. Give me a 5D any day over any Red, that's how much I trust Red...

But to each is own, that's the beauty of this all industry. Because if Red was the only manufacturer in the world, this would be a sad, sad industry. I would probably be much happier baking cakes then.

By the way, I don't give Red another 5 years. Probably much sooner than that.
Click to expand...

What do you see that's so gorgeous and perfectly structured in this footage?

http://vimeo.com/20072192
 
But why do you keep putting words in 'my mouth'? I never said red was bad or that others shouldn't be shooting with it. I specifically said, in my opinion, to my eye, I don't like the look, compared to the Alexa or even the C300.

And that's all there is to it. Its only my opinion, and it amounts to me and myself only.

By the way, The Hobbit surely will have tons of post work done to its original footage, so I doubt they will have any problems dealing with clipping. And as of Mr. jackson, the fact that he can get the 5K out of it (more like 4K lets be honest folks...) means the post work will be done much more detailed, rather than using only 2K, that makes sense and was one of the main reasons he choose the Epic.

Good for him. Good for Red and good for the boys...

The fact that I pointed out a 'glich' in Red's footage, meant to people that I was some sort of hijacker. When initially, it couldn't be further from the truth, I was genuinely trying to figure out what it was, until, very kindly, combatentropy explained in an intelligent and politely manner what it was and why it was. That was all I was expecting for when I first asked!

Now, after this sad things happen, how do you expect me to take some of these folks seriously? How can I resist to tease them even further? Its a joy to watch droll for blood!

Sorry I can't resist. Its hilarious.

I beat you to your dog. I have three, and 8 cats! Oh, and my girlfriend... And none of them gives a toss about any of this. So there.
 
Actually, the link was on Arri's Vimeo channel, so no I didn't spend an hour finding it. As for the link you've provided, I have to say, no offense but you're right, your girlfriend doesn't give a toss about any of this :tongue:.
 
Hi Barry,
Thanks for the clarification. I think I got a wrong impression probably due to skimming through the posts fast. I agree with you that Canon has decided who their target market is with the C300 camera. I am sure they too will be interested in knowing who all will find this camera useful and adopt it.

The high ISO is of interest to me. I would love to hear from people who had attended the screening about the ISO 20000 shot.

I hope soon there is a trickle down effect with a lower priced model. I think Canon still has a chance to price the EF mount C300 2-3k cheaper than the PL version to help in adoption by of its EF lenses. That way the professionals/studios etc requiring the PL mount can buy/rent without any issues. And that will help people who have become disheartened due to the price.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Barry_Green said:

That's not what I said. I said "if you don't have ASC after your name, then you're not in the target market for this camera." Meaning, they aimed and designed (and priced) this camera towards the needs of the Hollywood cinematographer. That doesn't mean that other people won't find it interesting, of course -- I mean, the Red One was designed for the same market, and thousands of non-ASC, non-Hollywood shooters bought it too. And I'm sure that many outside the target demographic will buy the C300 (or at least rent it).
Click to expand...
 
BobbyMurcerFan said:
Actually, the link was on Arri's Vimeo channel, so no I didn't spend an hour finding it. As for the link you've provided, I have to say, no offense but you're right, your girlfriend doesn't give a toss about any of this :tongue:.
Click to expand...

Don't knock it, it won six Emmys including best drama...
 
BobbyMurcerFan said:
And it wasn't b/c of the camera.
Click to expand...

Couldn't that be said about anything?

I've caught a few adverts of that show and it looks amazing, image wise... That certainly helps make the show seem like a quality production, just like the wardrobe, acting or any other part of what makes a show shine.

The fact that alot of us are now able to purchase/rent similar IQ should be a cause for celebration, not constant bickering over specs and brands. Now we just need to work on everything else that goes into making a great project.
 
Nuno Dias said:
The fact that I pointed out a 'glich' in Red's footage, meant to people that I was some sort of hijacker. When initially, it couldn't be further from the truth, I was genuinely trying to figure out what it was, until, very kindly, combatentropy explained in an intelligent and politely manner what it was and why it was. That was all I was expecting for when I first asked!
Click to expand...

The problem is that it isn't a glitch in the camera, it's a glitch in the brain of the colorist, if they didn't mean for that look. You assumed that the clipping problem was the sensor, but it isn't. The footage out of the Red camera is "raw" in the sense that they are not doing post processing on the bayer data in camera that you are recording to use, other than loss-less compression to save some space. And even then you can dial that back.

Sure, the Red does do processing inside the camera as well, but that is just for visual monitoring. That is throw away data you are not using.

But the point with the Red is you can decide EXACTLY what you want to do. They aren't making decisions for you. You get to decide what to bake in, and you don't have to make those decisions on set. You get to have your REALLY HIGH bit depth, you get to keep all your color data. Of course, you pay for that with space and power.

But, all that said, if you don't like red footage, hey, there is nothing wrong with that. :) No one can argue with what your tastes are. It's probably a good thing we don't all have the same taste, then every movie would be shot and graded the same. That would get old fast :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top