Interview situation: two speakers, one mic?

KINOKS

KINOKS

Well-known member
I'm doing an interview, for a talking heads docu. It's going to be in a 10x5m conference room with one wall that's only window and another that has some
closets. And at the middle of the room there is a huge elips shaped wooden desk (they'll be sitting at it). But there's not as much reverb that one would expect.

Anyway I only have one boom pole. What should I do? My mics are:
- a Sony condenser shotgun
- an Oktava power module with three different capsules (omni, cardio, hypercardio)
- one lav mic (that I really don't like, it's really muffed)

What to do? I'm afraid that it's going to be an energetic interview, meaning that the speakers will most likely
jump in and out, so I'm afraid of using the hyper. Should place the Oktava with a cardio capsule between them?
I could use duck tape and try to stick the sony and the oktava on the same boom and point each at it's designated speaker:):)

What to do?

Thx
Br
S
 
If you are going to boom this.....I wouldn't try to put two mics on it. it's going to get heavy real fast. use the cardioid pattern mic. you will get more room noise but unless you you are fast enough with the pole, the hyper might be too focused for this application and your poling ability. The cardioid will give you a bit more forgiveness if you are slightly off-axis. Just make the room as quiet as you can to lower the noise floor.

Duct taping any mic to a pole is a recipe for disasterous sound. They need to have shock mounts to isolate them from handling noise.

Your best bet is a pair of lavs, though. Or a second boom op with the same mic. Then the hypers would work. you take one interviewee and your second...the other.
 
Rent 2 decent wired Lavs, since it is an interview having each speaker have their own mic (and their own recording track as well) will make things a lot easier on you in post.

sharing one boomed mic I think will not work for you unless the situation is well scripted and you have talented boom op.

Also assuming you have a recorder that can handle 2 mic inputs.

Good luck

GG
 
I totally forgot that there are air ducks in that room that can't be shut down! So using the cardioid would result in lots of pain probably:)

I'm recording on a Roland R-26, it has 2 XLRs, so two lines are not a problem.

Unfortunately there's no budget left to rent, so I'll have to make do with what I got. Hypercardio is the only choice so it looks like the interview is going to have be more
scripted in order to move the boom in time to the next person.

Two lavs would be great though...:)
 
You should lav up one of your subjects as a backup since you'll have the spare inputs. You might be able to EQ the sound in or mix it with the other track.
 
DNN said:
You should lav up one of your subjects as a backup since you'll have the spare inputs. You might be able to EQ the sound in or mix it with the other track.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing yes. Maybe when the sequnce will be edited and all and when there's music on the sequence people won't notice...
 
There is only one solution here and it means two mics. If you have aircon noises, then editing will be a pain as the background comes up and down as you switch boom focus, and boom ops can only be reactive, meaning you will miss the beginning of every interjection. Frankly, if I was boom op, I'd be embarrassed because I KNOW it's going to sound pants. If your budget is so fragile you cannot afford the tiny cost of microphones that will save the project, I'd seriously question if you should be doing it. The extra time in the edit trying to salvage a mangled audio track easily makes the small amount of a hire worthwhile. Is there no chance that a couple of mics on desk stands would be ok? Is it meant to be natural, as in we're eavesdropping, or a formal news style presentation? If mics in vision are an issue, then two lavs are the only solution. In this layout even a boom will be difficult. The only practical way to have a mic 'aimed' at two mouths is for the boom arm to go in from the mid point, so it can just turn left and right, and that could be where your camera is? Or maybe lower than the table looking up, but this will make duct noises from the aircon even worse.

Although making a lav and boom mic sound the same will be difficult, I'd prefer that to any idea of using a moving boom as the only source.

If you can't do sound properly, it will spoil everything else!
 
This sounds quite horrible and you will also get nasty reflections from the table.

Personally, I think I would put a boundary mic. on the table between the two of them.

A small tie mic. - EG: DPA 40160, Sennheiser MKE 1 or MKE 2, etc - would do this. Stick to the table using Rycote Stickies and it turns into a boundary mic. and very unobtrusive. Use an Undercover to disguise it a little.
 
paulears said:
Is it meant to be natural, as in we're eavesdropping, or a formal news style presentation?
Click to expand...

The storyteller is obscured in this film, so that means no mics, no narator...

John Willett said:
A small tie mic. - EG: DPA 40160, Sennheiser MKE 1 or MKE 2, etc - would do this. Stick to the table using Rycote Stickies and it turns into a boundary mic. and very unobtrusive. Use an Undercover to disguise it a little.
Click to expand...

:) nice idea. But that would pick up lots of room noise, wouldn't it? In this case I would rather put an omni or a cardio on the Oktava and hang it between them... Wouldn't you?


Anyway, I think I just managed to create another stand that can be used to carry a mic. This is all last minute. The interviews are tomorrow, so this will have to do. I'll use the Sony
supercardioid and the Oktava hypercardioid. I've already tested them side by side and it's not going to be such a problem to match them in post. Using a lav and a hyper now that's a totally different story.

The two mics sounds quite similar, the only thing that I'm worried about is that the Sony will pick up more reverb since it's a shotgun... But since there isn't much echo in the room
maybe it wont be a problem:)
 
paulears said:
If you can't do sound properly, it will spoil everything else!
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree.

We are a small, up starting company that just went from no audio gear to a few mics and a recorder.
We're happy that we even have a project to work on at the moment:) So we cant afford to cancle something because it doesn't meet our quality standards.
We'll do our best with what we got tomorrow!
This is the last interview for the film that went overbudget so we are finishing of with what we can. If the sound
isn't going to be acceptable using two different mics than the interview is going to have to be split into 2 segment.
I'm not going below quality standards that much.


Thx for the help everibody!
 
KINOKS said:
....
The two mics sounds quite similar, the only thing that I'm worried about is that the Sony will pick up more reverb since it's a shotgun... But since there isn't much echo in the room
maybe it wont be a problem:)
Click to expand...
The problem with a 'gun is not echo, it's that the direct sound and the short-term room reflections can interact within the mic's tube and change/distort the tonality of the sound, making it sound hollow. Be very, very careful of the mic positions and do all that you can with blankets, etc, off-camera to reduce the room reflections.
 
Steve House said:
The problem with a 'gun is not echo, it's that the direct sound and the short-term room reflections can interact within the mic's tube and change/distort the tonality of the sound, making it sound hollow.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what I meant with echo. It messes with the audio, phasing out frequencies... Bit really, how much can be done with blankets?
 
KINOKS said:
:) nice idea. But that would pick up lots of room noise, wouldn't it? In this case I would rather put an omni or a cardio on the Oktava and hang it between them... Wouldn't you?
Click to expand...

It dpends on where you put the mic. on the table - you would certainly get less problems than hanging an omni between them where you would pick up table reflections as well as room reflections. A boundary mic. is very special as you get a 6dB increase in sound pressure level at a boundary - it should work very well.

Do a test with a tie mic. you already have, and see how you find it.

A Gefell KEM 970 mic. would work very well as it does not pick up room reflections like other mics - but it's an expensive option at around €10,000 for the mic.
 
John's so right. You're already worried about reflections spoiling the sound, so a boundary sitting right on one of the culprits will remove that surface, and it's the biggest and the closest to the voices, from the problem. Take your tie mic and place it just off the table surface - sticky foam pads will be fine for the test - or even a blob of blutac or other stuff. The voices will be much clearer. If you approve the sound, then just isolate it from the table so drumming fingers and accidental knocks don't get picked up, and disguise it somehow. The two different mics sound so different, only radical eq will work, and they'll both suffer.

You seem determined to use the boom - I've no idea why. It really is not the best way with the kit you have.

If you can't manage two lavs then a boundary mic is a perfectly workable solution.
 
Wow a 10k mic:)

Just for clarifications sake I'm not a sound person, just the producer/director.

The interview went fine as we shot only one speaker. So we just used the Oktava hyper.

Anyway, I'll pass the idea about the boundary mic to my sound producer. I just don't get it; how can an omni mic work as a boundary
mic as it's omnidirectional? Placing such a mic close to a reflective surface, wouldn't it catch the reflections from the table. I don't know, I'm not an expert.
I just watched the Sound DVD from Barry and he said that putting a mic right next to a reflective surface is the worst thing you can do...?

Anyway, I'm glad that it worked out alright for the sound department in the end, although it didn't work for me - for the story
department!:)

I appreciate your input!

@Paul: which mic sounds generally better to you? For dialogue recording?
 
Barry is right about placing a mic against a reflective surface......but the closer you are to the surface (in this case 1/8" inch or so) the reflection you will get from the table will be in the nanoseconds and negligible. Boundary mics and even a well placed lav can somewhat be exempt from the "no reflective surface placement rule". A boundary mic, such as the PZM, is designed with that specifically in mind. The capsule is usually an omni, but the construction of the housing is such that is a "half-omni". My PZM is heavy and has angles that help to "reject" reflections from the table or surface it is on.

OTOH, if you place a shotgun or pencil mic against a reflective surface, it will sound horrible.
 
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