Interior/ Two people talking/Alternating shots (one camera) How to?

[simonfilm]

I have shot a conversation of two women sitting opposite. It was done with one camera and alternate shots. I used a Rode NTG3, but I know it would be better other mic like the Rode M3 or the AT 4053b. The studio set is big so it has a lot of reverb that I tried to damp with blankets. The problem/question is: the dialog lines must be very well separated in order to edit the sound OK and more if there is reverb, but in real acting sometimes it is necessary that both talents talk at the same time stepping one to the other in order to be more natural. Perhaps this would be easier with an omni mic, but the I would pick up more reverb. Perhaps a supercardioid like Rode M3 on top of both? Any advice about recording conversations like this one? You can see the result (it is an acting exercice) (Rode NTG3 and Fostex FR2LE) here:

Thank you.

Simon.

 

[drapeama]

How "far" from the actress did you boom the audio? Best solution is to get almost "in-the-frame" to get the best signal to noise ratio.
So far I'd say having two mic for that: one pointing a single actor. Other than this, using an omnidirectional mic would probably help: both voices would sound similar (environement) and it would be easier to cut the scenes with the same audio track.
Also, as it's indoor, a shotgun like the NTG3 isn't a good idea even if I had some nice results using the NTG2 in a recent comparison test (comparing a Lav with different mics boomed). I also used an Audio-Technica MB4K in that same test and it performed quite well. It's not a microphone meant to be used for dialog capture, but from what I've recorded in the past, it perform well. You can check it here. I've used a JuicedLink preamp to get a better audio amplification than the built-in recorder's preamp, but as your conversation is framed "tight" on the actress face, you could boom the audio quite close to them speaking.

 

[Greg Smith]

With shots framed as tightly as these, you might even be able to use a lavalier on each actor. The usual complaint about lav sound is that it is too dry and leaves little sense of the room environment, but in a setting as reverberant as this one, you could probably afford to lose quite a bit of the room sound before it would detract from the quality of the track.

- Greg

 

[drapeama]

With shots framed as tightly as these, you might even be able to use a lavalier on each actor. The usual complaint about lav sound is that it is too dry and leaves little sense of the room environment, but in a setting as reverberant as this one, you could probably afford to lose quite a bit of the room sound before it would detract from the quality of the track.

For a movie (could be applied to an interview too) using a Lav would have some benefits: like having a crisp and clear voice (which gives more room to mix the sound in post). So one could get the voice and simply mix it with some room tone to get a nice blend between both rather than having to "clean" the voice in post because of some "unwanted" noise or ambience in the recording. That's just a thought.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I hate to be that guy who answers a question by not answering the question, but of course the real problem is the location. I realize that for whatever you're doing, you might be stuck with the location, but if it's an option to move, I would.

On a side-note, though I didn't understand a word they were saying, I believed all of it. Good acting.

 

[Steve House]

I have shot a conversation of two women sitting opposite. It was done with one camera and alternate shots. I used a Rode NTG3, but I know it would be better other mic like the Rode M3 or the AT 4053b. The studio set is big so it has a lot of reverb that I tried to damp with blankets. The problem/question is: the dialog lines must be very well separated in order to edit the sound OK and more if there is reverb, but in real acting sometimes it is necessary that both talents talk at the same time stepping one to the other in order to be more natural. Perhaps this would be easier with an omni mic, but the I would pick up more reverb. Perhaps a supercardioid like Rode M3 on top of both? Any advice about recording conversations like this one? You can see the result (it is an acting exercice) (Rode NTG3 and Fostex FR2LE) here:...

Simon.

In real acting it's actually not necessary for the actors to occasionally speak over each other for realism. If it's stage acting, perhaps, but the techniques of stage and film acting are very different. Record your reverses in at least 2 separate takes, one on each actor. Scene plays out in its entirety with the camera and mic on one actor while the other feeds cues from off camera. The actor responding to a given line pauses a beat before delivering it to provide room for cutting. Then you shoot it again, this time with the camera and mic on the other actor. In fact you might do each actor multiple times, getting inner and outer reverses, etc. The pauses between lines will be unnatural sounding when you shoot, sure enough. But a good film actor will be able to stay in character and deliver their lines convincingly even when they're chopped up like that. The pauses come out of the scene as you edit and adjust timing in post. In the NLE you checkerboard the sound tracks just like you checkerboard the video, ie, actor A's dialog goes on one track while actor B is on another, thus letting you freely adjust the timing between them. In places where the scene would play out so that one actor talks over the other, you create that by overlapping the two actor's tracks and mixing them into the final track.

Your reverb issue could be due in part to your having the mic too far from the subjects. While 'guns aren't at their best indoors, close positioning can help minimize the negative effects - try to insure the mic is no more than 1/2 meter from the speaker's mouth. And speaking of mic positioning, the M3 is a cardioid mic - it and similar cardioids would need to be even closer, 1/4 meter or so from the speaker's mouth.

 

[BRH]

In real acting it's actually not necessary for the actors to occasionally speak over each other for realism. If it's stage acting, perhaps, but the techniques of stage and film acting are very different. Record your reverses in at least 2 separate takes, one on each actor. Scene plays out in its entirety with the camera and mic on one actor while the other feeds cues from off camera. The actor responding to a given line pauses a beat before delivering it to provide room for cutting. Then you shoot it again, this time with the camera and mic on the other actor. In fact you might do each actor multiple times, getting inner and outer reverses, etc. The pauses between lines will be unnatural sounding when you shoot, sure enough. But a good film actor will be able to stay in character and deliver their lines convincingly even when they're chopped up like that. The pauses come out of the scene as you edit and adjust timing in post. In the NLE you checkerboard the sound tracks just like you checkerboard the video, ie, actor A's dialog goes on one track while actor B is on another, thus letting you freely adjust the timing between them. In places where the scene would play out so that one actor talks over the other, you create that by overlapping the two actor's tracks and mixing them into the final track.

Your reverb issue could be due in part to your having the mic too far from the subjects. While 'guns aren't at their best indoors, close positioning can help minimize the negative effects - try to insure the mic is no more than 1/2 meter from the speaker's mouth. And speaking of mic positioning, the M3 is a cardioid mic - it and similar cardioids would need to be even closer, 1/4 meter or so from the speaker's mouth.

Yes! Director needs to learn how to direct. Editor needs to learn how to edit!

 

[Noiz2]

Yes! Director needs to learn how to direct. Editor needs to learn how to edit!

While agree with what you are saying you should realize that the way you said it could be taken as rather insulting to the OP.
I don't think that was the intent.

 

[Rippie]

In real acting it's actually not necessary for the actors to occasionally speak over each other for realism.

I have to disagree with this. While for the most part I agree, there are times where no overlaps/clean cuts just isn't the right way to go with a performance.
IE:verbal arguments, or extremely quick packed dialog, etc.
It would seriously hinder the performance from the actors and by far that is more important than ANYTHING else on set in my opinion.

Yes the camera/lighting dept expect actors to hit marks for lighting/focus and actors are asked to do 100 other things while they perform but there are
sometimes it just doesn't make sense for the sound dept to hinder their work with no overlap requests.

In those cases you mic both/all sides of the conversation either with multiple booms or lav's and let post edit the material together
just like they edit the picture.

Once again for the majority of scenes I agree with you but felt it was worth mentioning that
it's not ALWAYS the way to go.