Interior/ hypercardoid advice needed

mainstreetprod

mainstreetprod

Veteran
I'm probably just missing something, but am unable to find what I'm looking for on the forums. It appears that the industry standard shotgun mic is the 416. Shotguns are great for exterior use, but what about interior? I see the sub $200 Oktava mentioned all the time as a great mic, but is it considered the industry standard? Or is there a more expensive hypercardoid that is used more often when expense is not a big problem - that is superior enough to justify the expense?

Also, where is the best place to get a good deal on the Oktava should I go that direction?

Finally, now that camcorders such as the HVX200 have XLR inputs and 48K sound, why is it necessary to record on a DAT machine? Is the HVX considerably inferior soundwise? Thanks in advance.
 
I can't answer your question about the industry standard but as far Octava are viewed by the taper community (www.taperssection.com), they are viewed as so-s0 quality for stereo mics. See taperssection for a complete breakdown on price and limitations as well as used mics in the yardsale section. Great prices there. Very good mics that are gently used can be found from $400 - $1000 depending on type and use history.

In terms of very good mics, I would recommend AKGs (483 or 414s) or Schoeps (MK41s are hypers) and I would definitely go with stereo mics as HVX200 can easily handle it.


Many places to buy mics but I recommend Cascade Media (in Portland, OR) or B&H Photo. Prices are pretty good. Cascade will give you good advice (unlike B&H) and can cut deals. Ask for Frank.

The Preamp in the HVX200 is adequate (as I understand it) and with a decent pair of mics and cables you can get okay sound. I recommend buying something like a V3 or Minime as a preamp as they will provide better control over gain and are optimized ot produce good sound. (Amps run from $300 - $1000).

Again, taperssection.com is the place to find out more and ask the advice regarding specific mics from a very knowledgable group and to get good deals in the yard sale section.

--

mainstreetprod said:
I'm probably just missing something, but am unable to find what I'm looking for on the forums. It appears that the industry standard shotgun mic is the 416. Shotguns are great for exterior use, but what about interior? I see the sub $200 Oktava mentioned all the time as a great mic, but is it considered the industry standard? Or is there a more expensive hypercardoid that is used more often when expense is not a big problem - that is superior enough to justify the expense?

Also, where is the best place to get a good deal on the Oktava should I go that direction?

Finally, now that camcorders such as the HVX200 have XLR inputs and 48K sound, why is it necessary to record on a DAT machine? Is the HVX considerably inferior soundwise? Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
 
insimple words , octava is good for the money , schoeps is throw amoney away if youu record dialog ,
akg 480-63 or mbho is about what i call good nic and less pain in the pocket
if you buy the akg m buy swivel moubt so you will beable working with low selengs as the mic is quit long .
its not bessery to record to external device if it not limiting your camera movemant or you need more then 2 tarcks , it is very important to get normal mixer infront ,,and better not just apreamp so you willget some other benefits b to work normaly on film production
minimi is nice - but tell me how do you send aditional feed , here return and dend few ifbs or just mixing 4 mics to 2 channels .
this is talking heads buisness not music buisness( at least for 99%)
 
Thanks for the replies. This is only my second attempt at a feature, hopefully
ending up on the big screen, so I must raise the bar a bit.

I already have a shotgun mic, a Sony c-76 short from the newscasting world, ($1000 + originally) that I have used a lot and have gotten what I consider good sound in outside situations.
Should I try to use it inside (small rooms with hardwood floors) or get a cardoid? Or get a 416 instead?

A also own other mics which I use for other purposes, like VO recording. - AKG Perception 200, Shure SM-58. I know they are not up to the level of the 480 series, but is either equal to the Oktava 012?
 
Last edited:
The AKG that Oleg is talking about is C480BGK63 which is the ultra linear series power supply with the CK63 hyper cardioid capsule. It runs about $1100. Above that is the schoeps CMC6 with the MK41 super-cardioid capsule about $1500. The AKG blue line has also been talked up around here SE300b with the CK63 hyper cardioid capsule (about $500). The Oktava MK012 with the hyper cardioid capsule (get it at sound-room.com and put in the discount code "DV") is only about $200 but it sounds much better than mics in its price range. It does have some serious drawbacks- handling noise and wind sensitivity. If you get the Oktava you HAVE to get the Rycote 20mm Baby Ball Gag ($140) with Jammer ($70) (even indoors, and no the “extreme windscreen” they sell at sound-room is NOT enough unless you are stationary on a c-stand indoors away from vents) and a K-Tek kssm shockmount with soft bands (get it at trewaudio.com $100).

Hyper cardioids (not cardioids) are generally preferred for indoor work since the off axis reflections can cause havok with shotguns. The shotgun you have should be fine for your outside stuff. I don’t have any experience with that mic, but by the time you get your other stuff you may not have money to replace that as well (I didn’t after the rest of the new toys I bought). Get a good boom (gitzo 12.9' carbon fiber for $250) and mic it close :18" away and you will have great sound. After you have your mic, shockmount, wind protection, boom, sony 7506 (or better beyerdynamic DTD770) headphones and GOOD xlr cables. You will want to look at a mixer. I got the Sound Devices 302 ($1200 @ trew) you may be able to get away with the Sound Devices Mix Pre ($600) but I wouldn’t. This is really the minimum. Sorry for the bad news.
 
the akg cost less then 600 in europe in some places
check the full compass , i sow there very nice price for mkh -50 b stock
check with Ty fORD he did check the Audix sxci - it less then 500
neumann 185 is also something to consider
 
18" for good sound - how is that possible in a wide shot? Seems like even with some
medium shots , you would be hard pressed to keep the mic within 18" of the
actors and keep the boom out of the shot. How does Hollywood do this?

Also, if I don't need a mixer and only a preamp, isn't there something available short of the SD 302 that will give equal sound? Are all preamps mono?
 
The SD Mixpre is a great mixer for about $600. It only has mic level in and line level out and fewer channels and leds. It is the one to shoot for if you can.

You have to get the mic as close as possible. You would be suprised how close you can sneak it in there (especially in 16:9). You can always use a wireless if you must have a lot of headroom. Do some tests, I swear you will mic it close.
 
Not sure why you're asking about the industry standards. Your question really should be, what do I need to capture great sound - the first answer is, hire an experienced sound mixer that has his/her own equipment.

If you really insist on the "industry standards", then be prepared for the sticker shock. Because "industry standard" kits will cost you more than $100,000. In every experienced mixers kit is serveral microphones of each type. I have two shotguns, two cardiods and a hyper, and I'm only a junior player. I also have 5 mixers, three recorders, 6 different wireless kits, 10 different lavalieres, and a whole host of other equipment. Again, rather than buy equipment you probably don't know how to use, hire someone that can bring everything you need and knows how to use it.

It has been said many times in this group that the best mics in the world will still sound like crap if you don't know how to use them. (For example, the "industry standard" Sennheiser 416 has a very tight pattern, and unless you are dead-on with it, you will have unusable sound.)

Phil
 
I agree with ptalsky. You are going to spend a ton of money and end up having a PA drop the boom in the shot or make noise on the boom during your do or die takes.
 
This is a unique situation - all positions will be volunteer, mainly from within my church. I know that sounds hopeless, however, the church has 6000 members, many from the music industry, is located in Nashville and has a state of the art media dept. So I am hoping we will have some qualified individuals to handle the sound- but they may not have the exact equipment needed.

I have shot a low budget feature before. Looking back on it, the story drags and the lighting leaves a lot to be desired - but I am still quite satisfied with the sound, even though at the time I had no help with it. At that time I hid mics in all sorts of places to get them close to the actors, and used the c-76 shotgun outside. So I'm hoping I can pull it together this time without having to hire someone. I do plan to take your advice and get a preamp or mixer, and
probably an SE300/CK93 for inside.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top