Input / Criticism Needed

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fingers515

New member
I've just finished an animated short and I'd like some feedback / criticism / opinions on the "camera" movements, cuts, timings and other Director-type things. This is my first attempt at an original animated short, and one of my goals was to try and "shoot" it as if it were done with cameras. Aside from the technical challenges inherent in animation, my emphasis was on camera movement, timing, pace, and basically trying to evoke a "feeling".

Any opinions, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqf9x6rM89o

Thank you.
 
fingers515 said:
I've just finished an animated short and I'd like some feedback / criticism / opinions on the "camera" movements, cuts, timings and other Director-type things. This is my first attempt at an original animated short, and one of my goals was to try and "shoot" it as if it were done with cameras. Aside from the technical challenges inherent in animation, my emphasis was on camera movement, timing, pace, and basically trying to evoke a "feeling".

Any opinions, positive or negative, would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqf9x6rM89o

Thank you.
Click to expand...

My only comment about pacing is a short is too short for David Lean long shots...

On a more technical note, what additional elements to Frame Forge did you need to get, or are androids part of a standard package of characters?
 
Awesome dude! I don't have the attention span to sit through most short films but I watched all of this.

1. Have to commend you on the opening shot were the broken foot comes into shot. It could have been done in a much longer, much flashier, much more boring way but love how you did it.

2. When we go from OTS to the next shot or two upon meeting the 2nd robot I think you crossed the line. Didn't feel right to me.

3. When he's fixing the 2nd robot and we are dollying back you should maybe slow to a still shot, beat, then cut to the next shot. It doesn't work for me with the shot moving then cutting to the next.

4. Didn't watch it a second time but does the city logistically make sense. ie. could it really have been out of shot in your particular shots the whole time?

5. When the 2nd robots foot twitches our hero give away what is about to happen, negating the next however many precious seconds. The hero's reaction to the foot twitching should be very subtle and maybe he place his hand on robot's heart.

6. Do you think it could do with some kind of sound effect when we reveal the city? I know your going for subtle so you've probably already tried that I'm guessing.

Once again, really well done.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
My only comment about pacing is a short is too short for David Lean long shots...

On a more technical note, what additional elements to Frame Forge did you need to get, or are androids part of a standard package of characters?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. The Robot had to be built one piece at a time from basic shapes, then attached to a human character. Then the human character's body was made transparent. LOTS of experimentation and frustration to figure out how to put everything together so that it worked. Everything was done in FrameForge (a storyboarding program for those not familiar) except the 2 dissolves and the sound FX.
 
tmnt said:
Awesome dude! I don't have the attention span to sit through most short films but I watched all of this.

1. Have to commend you on the opening shot were the broken foot comes into shot. It could have been done in a much longer, much flashier, much more boring way but love how you did it.

Much appreciated!

2. When we go from OTS to the next shot or two upon meeting the 2nd robot I think you crossed the line. Didn't feel right to me.

Yeah, I really wanted the lower right to upper left OTS camera move as the 2nd bot's reveal. That put me on the other side of the line, where I didn't want to stay for the upcoming shots, so I did the next shot straight on to the 1st bot, hopefully putting me exactly on the line, then the shot from below 1st bot's right hand, putting me back where I wanted to be. I'd hoped that would allow me to cross back without being too jarring.

3. When he's fixing the 2nd robot and we are dollying back you should maybe slow to a still shot, beat, then cut to the next shot. It doesn't work for me with the shot moving then cutting to the next.

That was a conscious decision on my part. I wanted to cut from a moving shot with drill sound to a sudden still shot without. I wanted the 1st bot to seem "contemplative" and I thought the sudden silence / stillness after the cut would help.

4. Didn't watch it a second time but does the city logistically make sense. ie. could it really have been out of shot in your particular shots the whole time?

Yes, I was careful not to include a shot that would have shown where the city would have been. That's part of the reason I wanted to stay on the 1st bot's right during the encounter with the broken bot. Also why I had the long walk with the 2 dissolves, so that the city could not have been in the very first shot.

5. When the 2nd robots foot twitches our hero give away what is about to happen, negating the next however many precious seconds. The hero's reaction to the foot twitching should be very subtle and maybe he place his hand on robot's heart.

I agree completely, but I was so pleased with the motion I got on the "surprise" of the robot (animation is really hard), that I kept it in at the expense of foretelling the big moment. Rookie director mistake - focusing more on the shot than the story.

6. Do you think it could do with some kind of sound effect when we reveal the city? I know your going for subtle so you've probably already tried that I'm guessing.

You are correct, subtle was the goal, so no music and no "surprise!" sound effect.

Once again, really well done.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the comments. I'll take all the advice I can get.

CHEERS!
 
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I actually love much of the pacing... It could probably be tighter in a few places and still achieve the same effect - so that would be worth looking at... but overall it goes a long way to increasing the sense of isolation and is a bold decision that I applaud - and it fits with the nature of the ending (next beginning) in my opinion also.

I think a couple of interesting mechanical closeup/macros... might have helped break it up a just a little and aid in keeping the viewer engaged.

Were you consciously using the "rule" of thirds in your framing? A few shots would benefit from better application of this principle in my opinion. Some shots too central, horizon lines too low... head shots could be framed a little better etc...

When working with such a flat panoramic view as you have, placing something into the foreground and or background goes a long way to creating depth and placing your subject in your shot. Pivoting on this also look fantastic... I suggest adding some more rotation/pivoting into your work. Dolly/crane ups are more interesting/engaging when also involving a pivot and or change of angle. That feet to head you did is the key one I'm referring too... As an animator I'd greatly recommend getting the Hollywood camera Works -"Hot Moves" as I'd suggest this would greatly improve you work.

Above all though, story is king - I really like the simple but effective premise... for me it comments on the nature of this world and I want to know more as he's walking off... So the biggest thing I would fix is your opening broken foot shot. Perhaps a macro on something else... mechanical bug or something while we wait its approach lol. First how the foot enters the frame should be considered... It's a big moment - and you give it to the unimportant foot/movement - which naturally draws our eye and distracts form the arrival of your key element - the "broken foot" I'd suggest leading with the broken foot (entering from directly above us) and consider a slight stagger or lumbered aspect (think numerous injured terminator style shots) to bring a little more weight to bare on this critical story concept.

Well done

Hope thats of some help

Best
LW
 
Lliam Worthington said:
I actually love much of the pacing... It could probably be tighter in a few places and still achieve the same effect - so that would be worth looking at... but overall it goes a long way to increasing the sense of isolation and is a bold decision that I applaud - and it fits with the nature of the ending (next beginning) in my opinion also.

Thank You

I think a couple of interesting mechanical closeup/macros... might have helped break it up a just a little and aid in keeping the viewer engaged.

I agree, but with the program I used, which is not primarily an animation program, my robot was already stretching the limit, complexity-wise, to the extent that each tiny move would take 10 - 20 seconds just for the posing controls to come up. Excuses, excuses...

Were you consciously using the "rule" of thirds in your framing? A few shots would benefit from better application of this principle in my opinion. Some shots too central, horizon lines too low... head shots could be framed a little better etc...

I know of the Rule of Thirds and, although I'm certainly not a pro, I did break the rule intentionally a couple of times, as I personally just like the way a very low horizon line looks in certain situations. Other times, as I'm not a pro, I just plain forgot! The head shot framing errors were my poor planing as I would sometimes start the movement where I though it looked good then find myself running out of room as the movement progressed..


When working with such a flat panoramic view as you have, placing something into the foreground and or background goes a long way to creating depth and placing your subject in your shot. Pivoting on this also look fantastic... I suggest adding some more rotation/pivoting into your work. Dolly/crane ups are more interesting/engaging when also involving a pivot and or change of angle. That feet to head you did is the key one I'm referring too... As an animator I'd greatly recommend getting the Hollywood camera Works -"Hot Moves" as I'd suggest this would greatly improve you work.

I had a couple of pans in the there, but I kept them to a minimum as the program I used only allows camera pan movements in 1 degree increments (1/10 degree increments would be much better), which makes for a somewhat jerky pan motion. I can't tell you how many times I've ALMOST bought the whole Hollywood Cameraworks bundle, just never could pull the trigger.

Above all though, story is king - I really like the simple but effective premise... for me it comments on the nature of this world and I want to know more as he's walking off... So the biggest thing I would fix is your opening broken foot shot. Perhaps a macro on something else... mechanical bug or something while we wait its approach lol. First how the foot enters the frame should be considered... It's a big moment - and you give it to the unimportant foot/movement - which naturally draws our eye and distracts form the arrival of your key element - the "broken foot" I'd suggest leading with the broken foot (entering from directly above us) and consider a slight stagger or lumbered aspect (think numerous injured terminator style shots) to bring a little more weight to bare on this critical story concept.

As far as the stagger or lumbered walk, I wanted to give him a limp that was purely the product of having one leg effectively shorter than the other because of the broken and bent back foot. I did not want to have him limp as a human would, that is, because of the pain - my robot doesn't feel pain, so his stride rythme was not meant to "favor" one foot as a humans would, but to be purely a mechanical issue.


Well done

Hope thats of some help

Best
LW
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your comments.
 
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