Indoors on camera - Hyper of Super?

K

Kelly Olsen

Well-known member
Just got the 100b this week but have been reading ALL of the GREAT postings here for over a year. Got the lowdown on the Oktava (thanks Matt - going to get those new cables from you) and the AKG Blue line (thanks Yankee), and the Rode and when to use what mike for when, and the shotgun shootout which was great, but my situation is this.

I'm going straight into DVX. Most shots will be sit down interviews so I'm clear from my education that my choice is the Oktava or the AKG blue line SE-300b module with the CK93 cap boomed as close as possible on a stand.

For outdoors I know that I should go with the Rode NTG 2 if I get the Ocktava for booming indoors, or the CK98 cap if I go with the AKG blue line. These are the mikes in my price range factoring in the need for mounts and wind protection - I've been a good student.

But here is a situation where I need some more advice. Some of my interviews are going to be hand held camera inside with the subject standing or moving around a little in a kitchen or den and I will have no boom person so the mike will have to be camera mounted or stand mounted but not within 2 feet because it will be a semi-wide shot so it will be 4 to 8 feet away.

So, will the Oktava or CK93 pick up enough at those distances or should I use the shotgun Rode or CK98 cap and risk all the problems associated with shotguns indoors (which does not seem like a good idea)? How far away can I get inside with the Oktava or AKG CK 93. What is your experience with distance indoors with a Hyper?

Yes, a lav is a possibility but I need to know what will work best without the lav.

Thanks for sharing all of your valuable knowledge. This is one great site because of all of you.

Kelly
 
Kelly Olsen said:
Yes, a lav is a possibility but I need to know what will work best without the lav.
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First of all: the lav won't only be a possibility, it will be the BEST solution. The main "problem" with anything other than a correctly placed boom or a lav is that the subject might talk whilst NOT facing the cam. BUT, I've had okay results with the hyper cap on an Oktava, FWIW.
 
If I had no choice, then I would use a hyper on the cam, and get it within 4 feet. This can still sound acceptable, as long as you are not in a room that is too boomy, and there is not a lot of background noise. I would definitely not go farther than 4 feet, and would try to get it within 3 feet (You'll thank yourself when you're editing).

Shoot some B roll that's wider, and intercut that. But keep the mike close for the actual interview.
 
If you can manage it, maybe also place anther (omni?) hanging from the ceiling or on a stationary mic stand & boom above the talent. (Well, of course, out of frame... :) ) Run it into the other channel, so even if you lose the audio on one from movement, you might still get it on the other.

Even better, of course, would be a multichannel double system with strategically placed hidden mics all over the place....but a boom operator would be cheaper. ;)
 
You can get a great sounding lav for $150 and all you need is a cable (unlike the other mics which need wind & mount support plus a boom op. at times.) I have a Countryman EMW which always gives me great results. Given the situation you've described, this is by far your best and easiest option and I would seriously consider it. Your sound is almost certain to be very good with a lav as opposed to possibly being usable with a hyper or shotgun.

If this is an interview, I'm assuming this is not a dramatic work and a hidden mic is not necessary. Is there any specific reason you prefer not to use a lav?
 
Just to chime in, I agree with what everyone else here has said regarding a lav mic. I personally can think of no situation where I actually want to shoot with a mic camera mounted, and if this is an interview situation then there is no reason why you would need to go ahead and hide the mic. It's just not necessary.

Now on the distance question, here is the most simple answer:
When it comes to the distance of the mic from the mouth of the speaker, the maximum distance is as close as you can get it. A lesser mic at 6" will sound better than another more expensive mic at 3'.

This is the reason people hire sound people, so that you have someone who will get the mic as close as possible for you to get the best possible sound.
 
dustino said:
You can get a great sounding lav for $150 and all you need is a cable (unlike the other mics which need wind & mount support plus a boom op. at times.) I have a Countryman EMW which always gives me great results. Given the situation you've described, this is by far your best and easiest option and I would seriously consider it. Your sound is almost certain to be very good with a lav as opposed to possibly being usable with a hyper or shotgun.

If this is an interview, I'm assuming this is not a dramatic work and a hidden mic is not necessary. Is there any specific reason you prefer not to use a lav?
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I can use a lav in some situations but there are going to be times when I will be interviewing people at a function like birthday or small party and people will be thrown into the room really fast and want to get out fast and hooKing them up will take time that I don't have and I will be alone.

So I'll need to have the mike on camera or on a stand, but again, four or five feet will be between the subject and camera. So I'm stuck with either the hyper or the shotgun which takes me back to which of these mikes will be best in that situation.
 
Oh, well, that should be fine then, and the Oktava with hyper OR a shotgun should work well (with wind protection).
I think the word "interview" threw people off here, as it was understood in a more formal way.
Since you are talking about asking Uncle Johnny about "the time he ran over little Billy with the lawn tractor" kind of questions, and the setting is a party, the fact that music and other people will be heard in the b.g. will be okay, SINCE it is part of the experience.
However, closeness is still your key: the closer the better; that rule still applies, as one still wants to clearly hear all about the "visit to the hospital to re-attach Billy's toe".

You get the picture; it WILL work with a Hyper or shotgun, but still keep the subject as close as possible.

Oh, and as far as which one is better, hyper or shotgun, it will depend a great deal on which particular type of these we are talking about. Personally, I'd say the Oktava MK-012 with appropriate wind protection and a hypercardioid capsule will do well in these conditions.
 
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With the background noise of a party (even a fairly quiet party) even 4' is probably going to be too far.

Zoom out all the way. Keep it a head shot. That should get you within 3', which might make it acceptable.

And definitely use a lav whenever possible. If the lav can be seen, you can get quite quick at lavving the person.
 
The background noise is not going to be much of a problem because I will be able to control that to a large degree.

So it appears here that most people agree that the Oktava or AKG CK 93 hyper will be better in this situation than the Rode or AKG CK 98 super eventhough the shotguns have a greater reach.
 
I have the Blueline with Hyper and Shotgun .. and it was my only serious mic until I got a second hand Senn 416 for a steal at a liquidation...

In regards to your most recent question, I'd say that a shotgun would be preferable IF ambient noise/talking was potentially a problem, AND the room is not too boomy!! If the room is a hard/boomy kitchen or bathroom, then the shotgun will sound thin/cheap. If there is a lot of ambient, the hyper won't "cut" through it in the same way as the shotgun will. It's all about compromises. The better the shotgun, the more natural it will sound in less shotgun-favourable circumstances (i.e. indoors, small/hard rooms). I would say that the blueline hyper will *definitely* sound better than the blueline shotgun, in any indoor setting where you can get it close enough, and where ambient is controllable.

Do remember as well that the akg blueline hyper is a *very* good hyper, while the blueline shotgun is a pretty good shotgun ... If I'm choosing between the blueline hyper and the sennheiser 416 shotgun, then it's often a tough call, since the 416 is very good indoors for a shotgun, but the hyper sounds better if it's close and isolated enough. If I was choosing the blueline hyper vs blueline shotgun, then it would be a tough decision ... since the hyper would struggle to pull a clear voice out of the ambient noise, while the shotgun just doesn't sound as good indoors. If you compare the hyper/shotgun in a small/medium sized room (in silence) you will see how much richer the hyper sounds.
 
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kelly, what genjerdan said earlier in the post has some merit, but i seriously dont think using an omni or hiding mics all over will help you.

you're looking at two mics for a one person interview. a lav, which is your primary, and the oktava w hyper, mounted on a mic boom stand. these cost next to nothing, usually have the reach for an interview, and allow you to set up what looks like a VERY professional one man approach to a static interview. itll allow you to get the hyper in as close as it should be, and that will be your b channel.

heres the thing - the lav and mk012 will both be great! so in post you'll be able to pick the one you LIKE more, rather than the one thats less messed up. :)

tim

ps - any relation to famous olsens?
 
timapter said:
heres the thing - the lav and mk012 will both be great! so in post you'll be able to pick the one you LIKE more, rather than the one thats less messed up. :)

ps - any relation to famous olsens?
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Tim and others,

Thanks for the advice.

My uncle thinks he is famous. He's not but we don't want to crush his little fantasy.
 
Well, if you're doing those kinds of interviews, why not just get a hand-held and hand it to them to talk into? If you don't care whether you see a mic or not, this is one easy way to get the mic close, and cut down some of the background clutter. I can't really recommend a specific one, but there are standard "reporter" mics that I'm sure others will recommend...

Phil
 
ptalsky said:
Well, if you're doing those kinds of interviews, why not just get a hand-held and hand it to them to talk into? If you don't care whether you see a mic or not, this is one easy way to get the mic close, and cut down some of the background clutter. I can't really recommend a specific one, but there are standard "reporter" mics that I'm sure others will recommend...

Phil
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Great idea. You could just buy one of MattinSTL's handgrips for $15 to add to an Oktava, BBG, and K-tek. Handling noise could be a problem if the user doesn't put some slack in the cable, though...
 
Now bear in mind that I am a rookie....but I know this guy who does weddings and part of his shtick is to interview a ton of well lubed people at the reception and this is what he does. He mounts a mic on the cam whether it be a shotgun or otherwise and for channel 2 he uses a wireless transmitter plugged into a the bottom of a not expensive mic with a big fluffy and passes it to the interviewee. So the interviewees hold the mic themselves, and for the most part, it seems to work out. The fluffy reduces the popping P sounds, and as noted in another post, using a cheap mic up close might be better than something better from a far. And he has two tracks to choose from. He does need to have a pretty quick finger on the remotes gain though. This has worked ok for him and if someone drops the mic, it isn't too big a deal.
 
yeah, those handhelds work (MD46 and RE50) very very very well, and i love them. its just sometimes its not too aesthetically pleasing, and people prefer to use a lav. Even though I doubt any lav sounds as clean as a nice handheld mic.

Kelly, sorry just read now that you say your shots are gonna be pretty wide. This means my mic stand trick wont hold up too well - its great for anything static, but movement in shots, or wides will kill it.

I think you REALLY want a boom op for this. Even if its your uncle with a paint pole (:) chance to get famous)... if not, what everyone is saying about the lav, well, its true.

and if at the end of the day its choice between hyper or shotgun indoor on cam, id take the hyper, and try get as asclose as possible on the shots, or SERIOUSLY deaden up the room with blankets out of shot, and use the shotgun (making sure not to pan the cam away from the actor even slightly!)

So theres an inconclusive answer for you... its gonna depend on what your exact circumstances are, i think. but good luck with it..
 
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