I'm no good...What they say is true...Independent features

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Nobody356

Well-known member
Okay so I'm stubborn, I thought I didn't need to listen to everyone and now I don't know if I'd say I regret it but I feel somewhat dumb. They all say not to try a feature till you've had much more experience than I have, I didn't listen to them. Today was the first shooting day of my feature and well now I understand why people say not to try it. I planned everything out, I wrote, edited and tweaked the script(although I'm not the best writer), I got ahold of actors and had/still have 40 of them lined up, I even got them in to do sceen tests where they read lines and showed me their acting skills. 9:30 this morning...everything caught up with me...and everything went wrong. People didnt show up when they were supposed to, we realised that we didnt have one of the 6 main characters(and just had to work around her lines), one of the actors left before he even said one line, setup took way too long to do and five minutes after starting the shoot the technical problems started. We almost immediately fryed a breaker and that took about a half hour to work around(during this time the cast got very uncomfortable because they were all sitting in the dark tied up and had their mouths taped shut).....All along through this process there have been major problems such as our lead actor quitting and needing to find another one, and its because when we're shooting independent movies we cant pay actors and cant afford the best equipment and these things start severely impairing our creativity. It is really hard to make something without the right tools unless you have lots of experience and i simply dont have it!

I know this is a rant but i hope it can help others in my situation because from all this i have learned something. If you want to attempt a feature you should definately know what you are getting in to, its no walk in the park(and i never thought it would be) and you need to be ready to accept failure unless you are highly prepaired and/or experienced. But if you are willing to accept failure and willing to spend a lot of time at failing go for it! You WILL learn a lot doing this and be a better more experienced filmmaker because of it.

Right now I'm pretty confident that my feature which i put soooo much time effort and money(not a lot, but a lot for me) into will SUCK, maybe its because i just suck, who knows. But i do think that if i bite my lip and do my best with what i have and i manage to pull this thing together enough to produce a mediocre(but finished) final project It will have been worth it. I've already learned so much and will learn so much more in the next week. And if i can pull out of this with that mediocre product I will have more people and be able to get more and better people for my next movie. NExt time I'll have more experience and maybe just maybe I can make something decent.

So go ahead and laugh at me...the dumb 17 year old who doesnt know his limits and is in way over his head with this project. But maybe my little rant will help some people out who are trying to decide what to do next. I guess now I'll be one of those people who say, "you're not ready yet, practice more, do a short" :undecided
 
LOL!!! No, I'm not really laughing at you, I'm just laughing because I have twenty years on you and I can.

Do you have any idea how many folks on this board would love to have had the experience of shooting a feature at 17? Hell, even a decent short at 17? Will it suck? Comparatively speaking, probably so. But so what? You're not doing this to get a distribution deal at 17 your doing this to learn. And you are giving yourself one hell of an education - a REAL education. They don't teach you in a book what to do when half your cast fails to show up for a call. Or when your only lamp breaks to a light you planned to use for a shot and you don't have a spare. Or... or.... or..... These are things you learn by doing, regardless of profession. This is why experience is so valued by people who have a few more years on you - they know that to get good at something you have to suck at it for a while. It's the law of nature. And my god man, if you can't take chances and fall on your ass for the sake of learning when you're 17, you'll never be able to. Take a deep breath, relax, kiss a girl and smile - you're making a movie!!

When I was your age I wrote a short symphony (still relatively long). I was a hotshot young composer studying with the head of Yale's comp department. I wrote a bunch of small things and received praise, so why not a symphony? I soon learned why not and wanted to quit. My teacher wouldn't let me. I didn't understand why at first. When I was done and heard it performed and analyzed my score, I went off on a tear. Pounding my fist against my head, going on and on about all the things I did wrong or should have done differently, the whole time my teacher sat there smiling at me. "Why are you smiling, I just wasted three months of my life!!" He then told me "three months ago if you heard this symphony or analyzed this score you wouldn't know what was wrong with it." So you see? I had learned something - a lot of somethings. Those lessons made my next one better. Still not great, but better. And then you learn some more.... This is how we learn to master something. So many times people focus on the end result, they never master anything. Mastery comes by focusing on the process, the little things, the details. Forget that you're making a feature - FORGET it. When it comes time to light a scene, light it. Focus on lighting that scene. Shooting that scene. Making that day's schedule. If you focus on the process the results take care of themselves - for better or worse.

There's a great exchange from "A league of Their Own":

Dottie Hinson: It just got too hard.
Jimmy Dugan: It's supposed to be hard! If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it great!

Good luck to you!

Matt
 
Well I guess you have to learn some things for yourself--especially when you're 17. :laugh: Maybe you should try to scale down your film on the fly and go for a tight 25 minute piece rather than an unwatchable feature. Indie casts and crews can usually smell blood in the water and people will start to bail if they think you don't know what the hell you're doing. Consider yourself lucky that the scales fell from your eyes on the first day of the shoot. The kinds of problems you experienced aren't that unsusual, but you need to be able to quickly problem solve and prevent situations from damaging the production. The fact that you seem to have lost confidence in your production after one day of shooting is a bad sign. I'd question why you want to continue with the feature if you think it's going to suck. As a director, if you can't covey a genuine sense of confidence and authority--all is lost. So you might want to carefully consider how to move forward.
 
I agree - regroup, scale back and remember ... people much older and (supposedly) wiser than you have run into the same troubles, other troubles, and more! So keep plugging away at it and don't give up!
 
agreed..... with everone that is....

There's two side to my story here for you.

1. Maybe you should scale it back to get a tight short but........ see #2

2. Who says you can't shoot a feature for your 1st project? Go for the gusto homie!
 
Keep something in mind.

The problems you faced – unreliable people, unreliable equipment, unexpected things going wrong, people disagreeing (even in good faith), delays, plans not standing up to practice . . .

This is just the real world. It’s not exclusive to filmmaking. It happens in any endeavor involving people. True, filmmaking naturally attracts *flakier* people than some other types of efforts, but people are people and that’s what you’re experiencing.

How you cope with it has as much to do with simple life experience as it does with movie-making experience.
 
Take a deep breath, relax, kiss a girl and smile - you're making a movie!!
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That is outstanding advice!

Nobody356, I say press on. In two days I wrap filming on my first feature film and what I've noticed is that each time it felt like the entire film was slipping through my fingers, what rose out of those ashes was better than what was crumbling. I watch the dailies now and am shocked because what the camera captured is better than I could have ever hoped for. And that excites me to continue the daily struggle of making a film. Even if it turns out to be junk that's banished to the attic only to be pulled out at picnics and family reunions, it's still my first film, and the things I've learned here will make the second film all that much more.

Chris
 
the fact that you went out to do a feature is admirable. Some people don't get the experience you just did with a year in school. Your limitations and mistakes may pave the way to something different and interesting. Be thankful that you had the courage to learn and take that knowledge with you to the next. If you're dedicated, there will always be a next...

J
 
... yes your right.. what they say is true.. for the most part anyway . there are always exceptions to the rule, but better safe than sorry. anyway .. im sure weve all been there at one point. just keep on going through it, becuase the ability to finish what youve started is most of the battle for filmmakers. teach yourslef how to do that now and youll grow immensly more ..ionce upon a time i personally had to learn that the hard way after scrapping my first feature film.
 
I'm laughing with you brother - even though you're not laughing yet. You will be. If you're going to get anywhere with this avocation you'll have to. Buy me a beer sometime, and I'll tell you about how roosters react to HMIs at 2:00 am. While you're rolling sound.

Don't think of this as a film. Think of it as film school. Treat the whole thing as a learning experience, do the absolute best you can and, most importantly, have fun with it and I bet you'll be surprised at how well you did when the dust settles.

If you can easily scale it back to a short, that's not a bad idea. Most of the things you'll learn don't coalesce until the whole process is over, so if you cut back your shooting days, you wont spend as much time making the same mistakes multiple times. You can get right to the next project and make all new mistakes.

Making movies is fun. It damn well better be because, no matter how much you get paid, it's too damn hard of work to do if it weren't. Do don't forget to keep that attitude, and infect your crew with it as much as you can.

Congratulations on getting such a jump on us old farts. Get this one done and then make the next one.

Joe
 
Nobody356 before you began this project you weren't a director, now you are. Congratulations!

When you are 35 and making great films you'll appreciate this difficult experience as one of the best, maybe not the easiest or most pleasant, but definitely one of the best experiences of your life.

Revsion, as others have suggested, may be helpful.

Which scenes really convey the essence of your story and move the piece along?
Figure this out off-set. You will go nuts if you try to screenwrite (or major script revision) and direct simultaneously.

Imagine you've shot everything, then ask yourself the following:

- If I had to make a 1 minute trailer, which scenes would I include?
- If I had to make a five minute short... which scenes?
- 20 minute short... etc.

This should help you prioritize scenes in the revised product.

Evaluate what you putting on the screen as you shoot. If you were walking by a TV set with this (what you see in the viewfinder) on, would it catch your eye? Would you stop and watch?

Tell your story visually - do it with images you'd want to see again and again (when you edit them you will) if those images appeal to you, then they will appeal to others too.

Pat Matheny once said he makes music that he'd want to hear.

Francis Ford Coppola said that he learned that generally when he finds something he is passionate about there are others who are passionate about it too.

You have a unique perspective to offer, with what you have, make a movie you'd want to see.

Very best of luck.
 
Wow a Pat Metheny quote! Pats a local hero here in Missouri. I don't have any sage advice on making movies but this thread is fantastic and informative for all who are trying to get it done.
 
That's actually a good Metheny reference. I like some of Pat Metheny's music; some if I don't like at all. But I always dig the fact that he tries different things and doesn't necessarily do the same thing over and over again. That keeps him interested in the music and is ultimately a great thing for art.
 
Right now I'm pretty confident that my feature which i put soooo much time effort and money(not a lot, but a lot for me) into will SUCK,
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This demonstrates wisdom WELL beyond your years.

Almost without exception, all first-time films (and, indeed, all first-time endeavors in any discipline) will indeed stink. Obviously. Practice and experience are what lead to skill and quality; a first-timer doesn't have that practice or experience yet. Most first-timers are so in love with their concept and what they've done, they can't see that it's actually pretty awful.

The fact that you're mature enough to recognize it speaks very, very well for you. It gives you the capacity to grow, to see what you did wrong and to fix it. First-timers who make awful films (and then convince themselves that the film is really good, and it's just EVERYBODY ELSE who's wrong) don't ever get that chance to grow.

Think about it this way -- the first film is kind of like a baby's first steps. A baby's first steps are exciting, exhilirating, and all that -- but as walking goes, it's pretty lousy. Babies stink at walking. They're terrible at it. But with a little practice, and learning what not to do (from falling down, etc) they soon get pretty good at it. And the ones who stick with it can be Olympic gymnasts who leave us all jaw-dropped at how awesome they are. But it takes 14 years of intense practice and study to get to that level.

Starting with a feature is rarely wise. My advice to anyone is to make at least a dozen short films before even thinking about making a feature-length production. Walk before you can run, run before you can tumble, tumble before you try vaulting or parallel bars, etc. Win at the local level before you enter the state. Win at the state before you enter the regionals. Win at the regionals before you try for the nationals. And win at the nationals before you try for the Olympics. Making a good feature film is like competing at the Olympics.

What you are experiencing is not unusual. What you do about it -- how you respond to it -- that's where they separate the men from the boys. Sounds like you're on the right path.
 
Wow just got home and checked this thread, thanks for all the great responses and advice. I just finished with the shooting for day 2 and it went a whole lot better. We are still far from a finished product but we're making ground. Originally i scheduled out 6 days for shooting this movie but now i think it will most likely take quite a bit longer than that. The acting is still poor, the people are still somewhat impatient and the script hasnt gotten any better but I had my act together better today. Possibly the most important thing I learned is my limits, I learned how much I could do at once(although I'm still doing too much) and what I needed other people to do and I worked at giving out some small duties that I just couldn't afford to do myself.

I think that for other beginning filmmakers i can pass on some advice that I gained today.

1) Never underestimate the importance of having people to do technical things when you're trying to film. I have one camera and I am the only operator of it so It would be too hard for me to do everything else. Today and at the end of yesterdays shoot I put people to work, I gave each person who wasnt acting a simple job such as adjusting the boom, working the lights or giving the actors their lines.

2) One camera shoots are very difficult because you do lose some of the dynamics between the actors when you're constantly yelling cut. Try to get two cameras but if you can't, it doesnt hurt to have the actors read their lines together once just so they can picture the other persons response and make it sound more like a real conversation.

3) Don't be too attachted to the script, dont be afraid to change things if they dont fit or look or sound funny. And actors will always change whats on the paper when they say it, so let it fly unless you really need specific dialogue. You have to be flexible but also need to know where to draw the line, because sometimes you need the actors to say specific things.

4) Cater to your actors. If your actors arent happy you wont get good results from them. In my shoot some of the actors go for a while without a line and since they are sitting there chained up and under the hot lights they get very uncomfortable and anxious. There were times when i switched to a different part just to give different actors a chance to act so they didnt go crazy. Also there were a few times that I gave the actors breaks even though we were somewhat rushed for time....This made them work a lot better after the break was over

Unfourtunately (I guess) my script cant really be made into a short, well at least a real short...maybe an hour long short if i cut a lot of scenes but its not totally worth it.For the most part its a short feature thats pretty packed with plot. And you ask why I keep going if i know its going to suck.....because if i quit now i look like a failure and people are let down and lose faith. Everyone who is a part of this thing knows the kind of problems we are having and the difficulties we are facing, pulling it out here will gain me support for nesxt time and more experience. Plus i do believe i can still wow them with the final edit(they'll say ... thats better than I thought ... and ....Thats good considering). It is dissapointing but I'm not giving up or losing faith, I know I'm starting early and I'm glad I've been givin the oppurtunity to try this. Next time will be so much better......
 
Try to get two cameras
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But two cameras causes problems with lighting and setup. Remember that most big budget films are still only shot with one camera. Unless you're blowing up something expensive. Then get as many cameras as you can. :laugh:

It sounds like you're going to be fine.

Chris
 
krestofre said:
But two cameras causes problems with lighting and setup. Remember that most big budget films are still only shot with one camera. Unless you're blowing up something expensive. Then get as many cameras as you can. :laugh:
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Two cameras are important tho for dialogue in my oppinion. With two or more cameras you can get multiple angles and do scenes all at once. At least with the actors I work with, doing things all at once works betteter....the actors can play off eachother and create the feel of a conversation much easier. This might just be because most of my actors are theater actors :shocked:
 
I've had the same things happen to me, but it is a part of what goes on and there isn't really anything you can do except roll with the punches.

Question: Are you paying your actors? If not, I've heard that actually paying your actors is one way of keeping them from going AWOL. Gives them an incentive to actually be on time. To stave off mutiny, provide good food (a cheap craft services, if you will) and thank them for taking their own personal time to come out and do this.
 
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