I'm losing my crew

M

Movie_Dude_3

Well-known member
I'm a 20 year old college student/worker who made it a goal for the year to finish a movie. In preparation, I got a DVX100b, NTG-2 mic, and other accessories needed for the shoot. I pumped out a feature length script, revised it, went over it with several people, etc. Over time, I got several of my friends on board, all who were very enthusiastic to "finally" be working on something. We all intend to work in movies some day, hopefully. You know how that is!

So Principal Photography kicked in two weeks ago and the production got rough. The first day went very well. We got the shots done and at the end of the day, people were enthusiastic about it. The next day went pretty well too, except for a on-location mishap(guerrila filmmaking failed). After that, things got really, really tough. I'll do this in bullets.


  • Clashing working schedules. One guy, who plays the antagonist, has a job that literally calls him on the spot. It doesn't help that this guy doesn't have a phone or a car.
  • One of the main characters freaked out when we shot in his neighborhood. He's beginning to show less and less support and lose enthusiasm.
  • I send out a shooting schedule for every day about two days prior to the day's shoot. This includes, scenes, time of day, page numbers, costumes, actors, props, etc. Each one takes about an hour to do. I barely ever get replies and a lot of people still ask me "what outfits do I bring?"
I know student filmmaking is tough, but does anyone have any tips? Advice? A word from experience?

Thanks!
 
Well you need to start working with professionals. Everybody needs to be committed by contracts. You cant relly on friends.
 
There is the old adage, "you get what you pay for" but that doesn't help you right now. I would halt production for a week, re-organize, possibly bring on some people that are a little more experienced if you can. I hate to say it, but you may have to fire some of your friends or use them in a different capacity. A big thing is to not try gorilla, it is so difficult. It is not hard to find locations willing to let you shoot for free, it just takes time. Simply you just have to hit the pavement and go door to door looking and asking for what you want. Eventually some one will say yes.
 
Don't expect schedules to change; creatively work around them. Make every shoot as fast as possible. You can shoot a scene with two actors never being on set at the same time if you have to. I've done it. You have to be proactive about getting people informed and getting a schedule done; call them all regularly, write down their detailed schedules and plan as much as possible. And be prepared to replan. I had someone who mostly did just that once. It was a full time job. That's how it works, even when you do have some pay available. By the way, I hope you're providing lunch and making sure they realize how important this is and how much you appreciate them all working with you. Because that's what it is; them working with you. Not a completely equal arrangement between partners.

Is this your first film? It sounds like you haven't worked on this stuff before, based on your initial post. If that's the case, it might be time to realize that you should have started with a short to really get the hang of managing these things. Or not, that's totally up to you.
 
Cassius said:
Don't expect schedules to change; creatively work around them. Make every shoot as fast as possible. You can shoot a scene with two actors never being on set at the same time if you have to. I've done it. You have to be proactive about getting people informed and getting a schedule done; call them all regularly, write down their detailed schedules and plan as much as possible. And be prepared to replan. I had someone who mostly did just that once. It was a full time job. That's how it works, even when you do have some pay available. By the way, I hope you're providing lunch and making sure they realize how important this is and how much you appreciate them all working with you. Because that's what it is; them working with you. Not a completely equal arrangement between partners.

Is this your first film? It sounds like you haven't worked on this stuff before, based on your initial post. If that's the case, it might be time to realize that you should have started with a short to really get the hang of managing these things. Or not, that's totally up to you.
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Yeah, I've taken the crew to lunch quite a few times. That and yes, I've done many shorts before.
 
Movie_Dude_3 said:
Yeah, I've taken the crew to lunch quite a few times. That and yes, I've done many shorts before.
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You should be providing lunch everyday. A quality lunch, not fast food. A crew runs on its stomach. If you aren't paying you crew, feed them really well. If you are paying your crew, feed them really well.
 
Many of these issues should have been addressed in PreProduction. Locations, Wardobe. Only use industry people who's reputation depend on showing up and doing the work. Bad news travels fast and filmmakers talk. Stay focus, feed the army/crew, and keep momentum going with positivity. If your not excited and enthused, than why should anyone else be. Say Thank You everyday!

Keep it moving. Good luck.

Cheers
 
I've had this same problem before and I realized it was my fault. I wasn't serious enough. I was the one failing everyone.

- Like everyone said, feed them. I'm actually waiting several months to shoot my next SHORT film just to save up money for food.

- Also, I'm shooting in my room. I'm going to redecorate my entire room because it's my room and no one can tell me "you can't do that" "you can't shoot here". Besides that, I can rearrange things to my liking any time when we aren't shooting- sure, my room will be totally different, but it's worth the sacrifice and moving around. Besides that, I want my crew to feel closer and more trusting to me.

-Narrow down your actors. Don't have 200 characters. Find people who are really dedicated and serious- not just in it to have "fun". Spend months rehearsing before hand so you can build a relationship- so that they aren't just working FOR you, but with you. In other words, they'll support you if you have trouble- rather than fight you.

And show them how serious you are. Do not tolerate slouching or fooling around. You don't have to be a dick, but if you're DEAD serious about this, act dead serious. Tell them when they're on set, they're there to make a film, just like you, and if they don't want to or CAN'T (do to their schedules) give it everything they have while on set, they can take a walk. If someone isn't serious about it, they'll get offended. If they are serious about it, they will fall in love with you and want to work hard. But you have to keep that example up. If you're working on a film and the director stops caring, EVERYONE stops caring.

Not everyone can afford a pro crew. That's why building relationships over time is so important. You can and SHOULD work around people's schedules, but you have to know they won't flake out when you set certain shooting times/dates.

It's possible to shoot feature films this way, I'm sure, but it takes a long time. Maybe a few YEARS to navigate around schedules/money. Maybe scrap the feature idea for now and look to shoot a solid, 20 minute short that you can enter into festivals. Just a thought. Good luck.
 
mrmoe said:
Many of these issues should have been addressed in PreProduction. Locations, Wardobe. Only use industry people who's reputation depend on showing up and doing the work. Bad news travels fast and filmmakers talk. Stay focus, feed the army/crew, and keep momentum going with positivity. If your not excited and enthused, than why should anyone else be. Say Thank You everyday!

Keep it moving. Good luck.

Cheers
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Everyone involved are friends of mine. Locations and wardrobe have been decided early on, but I send a breakdown of the specific outfits needed for a specific day, just in case they forgot. I make sure to keep them fed on shooting days, and I'm usually enthusiastic(I.E. "That was awesome! I just want to have another take, just in case").

Thanks guys! Awesome advice!
 
Yeah... that's why I wouldn't shoot a feature without professionals. I agree with what other people have said. The idea of shooting a feature but using just a few buddies seems pointless to me. If you're going to elevate your game to feature level, it's time to be hiring professionals. Even making short films with amateurs is funny to me, but everyone does it at some point, including myself, it's just when people take themselves seriously and shoot shorts with amateurs that makes me laugh.
 
Feed them everyday.

Be well scheduled to move fast and have backups in case something goes wrong. This is a skill set that many directors either don't have or enjoy (including myself), so I discuss and plan with my AD before shooting all options and worst case scenarios we can think of, then he helps manage changes on set.

Personally, I'm against doing features with just unpaid friends as cast and crew. It's a long time and a long commitment.
 
JonathanLB said:
Yeah... that's why I wouldn't shoot a feature without professionals. I agree with what other people have said. The idea of shooting a feature but using just a few buddies seems pointless to me. If you're going to elevate your game to feature level, it's time to be hiring professionals. Even making short films with amateurs is funny to me, but everyone does it at some point, including myself, it's just when people take themselves seriously and shoot shorts with amateurs that makes me laugh.
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I guess you're laughing at directors like Robert Bresson, John Cassavetes, Steven Soderbergh, etc. then.
 
jpastuch said:
I guess you're laughing at directors like Robert Bresson, John Cassavetes, Steven Soderbergh, etc. then.
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Even if they didn't work with professionals (which they all did) just because one person directs films one way (no matter who they are) doesn't mean it's what everyone should do.
 
Movie_Dude_3 said:
I'm a 20 year old college student/worker who made it a goal for the year to finish a movie.
...
[*]I send out a shooting schedule for every day about two days prior to the day's shoot. This includes, scenes, time of day, page numbers, costumes, actors, props, etc. Each one takes about an hour to do. I barely ever get replies and a lot of people still ask me "what outfits do I bring?"
[/LIST]
I know student filmmaking is tough, but does anyone have any tips? Advice? A word from experience?

Thanks!
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I don't know what your script is like, but it sounds like to me that you project may be a bit more than what 'freebees' can handle. If your project were a short film, say, 3 minutes in length, then perhaps you could set up for 3 weekends of shooting, and, heck, even a complete rewrite if a major player decides to 'leave the project'.

If this is your first project, then it may be this will be abandoned, with the knowledge of setting more realistic goals if you do another film with some set of these 'friends'...

I think something on the order of the 48 hour film fest, even if you don't have a 48 hour fest in your area, or time frame, just making it a 'weekend extraveganza, were everyone is up for putting up with everyone else for a weekend.

Then its over, at least for the production, and you can work on post-production at your 'leasure'...

But on a more philosophical aspect... in management, and a director is a manager... there is nothing but planning. Sure pre-production plan... but don't be lulled into thinking that somehow what was planned in pre-production, will just unfold like clockwork... even on 'big budget' productions, the unexpected happens... hurricaine blows the set over... local political climate changes, and makes the place inhospitable... 'talent' bail, or are so 'elsewhere' that 40-50 takes have to be done to get anything usable...

So, I'd recommend trying for films under 3 minutes, that take a max of 3 crew, perhaps 2-3 actors, and stories that are simple enough to shoot in a short period of time, were everyone's adreniline is up enough to keep on the program...
 
Gohanto said:
Even if they didn't work with professionals (which they all did) just because one person directs films one way (no matter who they are) doesn't mean it's what everyone should do.
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That's true, but basically you agreed with me because that's exactly what I meant by my comment. Anyone can do anything any way they see fit.
 
jpastuch said:
That's true, but basically you agreed with me because that's exactly what I meant by my comment. Anyone can do anything any way they see fit.
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More like you're reinterpreting what I said to try and make your point, otherwise you wouldn't have needed to re-state it.

Just because a director needs a bigger budget to film the stories he wants to tell in the way he sees them, doesn't make him a lesser director. It's how well they tell stories. Spielberg tends to see stories through dolly shots, elaborate sets, and John Williams music. That costs money.

Is Spielberg a lesser director because his style works better with a larger budget than Kevin Smith? Of course not. Kevin Smith couldn't have directed Jaws, and Spielberg couldn't have directed Clerks. Every director, just like every person, has a different skill set.

I do better work when I'm working with a crew that doesn't get called in to work randomly, shooting all at once vs. just on weekends, and being able to trust that scheduling, lighting, and sound are all handled by competent people. Hence for me, and most people, working with professionals is the only way to go for the best results. Making a movie and spending money is always rolling a dice, but working with amateurs is more like rolling 50 dice at the same time and hoping they all land on 4.
 
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Gohanto said:
More like you're reinterpreting what I said to try and make your point, otherwise you wouldn't have needed to re-state it.

Just because a director needs a bigger budget to film the stories he wants to tell in the way he sees them, doesn't make him a lesser director. It's how well they tell stories. Spielberg tends to see stories through dolly shots, elaborate sets, and John Williams music. That costs money.

Is Spielberg a lesser director because his style works better with a larger budget than Kevin Smith? Of course not. Kevin Smith couldn't have directed Jaws, and Spielberg couldn't have directed Clerks. Every director, just like every person, has a different skill set.

I do better work when I'm working with a crew that doesn't get called in to work randomly, shooting all at once vs. just on weekends, and being able to trust that scheduling, lighting, and sound are all handled by competent people. Hence for me, and most people, working with professionals is the only way to go for the best results. Making a movie and spending money is always rolling a dice, but working with amateurs is more like rolling 50 dice at the same time and hoping they all land on 4.
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Agreed.

But I'm also not sure the utility in saying, "Well look you're wrong you jerk Robert Rodriguez did it and he's way bigger than you'll ever be so ha!" That's what a lot of people seriously repeat over and over. I think we all know Mr. Rodriguez is an immensely talented, visionary director, who also has a lot of skills that most directors do not, I mean in addition to directing. But Michael Jordan could also do some things with a basketball that you may not recommend everyone else try, lol. The point isn't the few exceptions who do something, it's the general rule of good filmmaking. I am sure that Rodriguez would agree it's easier to make a quality film with a real, professional crew than to do it the "Rebel Without A Crew" way, which is a great book by the way, one that I love. It's just that I don't really follow that style.

And I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a technically skilled enough director to pull that off anyway. I am not a cinematographer, I have no background in shooting with a video camera or a camera, either one. I am not an editor, though I do have more background in editing and can basically throw together stuff myself in a satisfactory manner. My issue is that I love working with professional editors, or people who have a different take on things, because I feel that my work is stronger when someone else edits it, not me. That is my preference and there is a reason that it works that way with almost every single TV show, movie, documentary, whatever. Sure, the directors are usually involved to varying degrees, but they have professional editors to do the work primarily because that yields the best results.

When my work started to become good, rather than amateur film school student crap, was when I started working only with professionals and hiring a real crew. The creative, collaborative process also helped in surrounding myself with people who understood it was ok to challenge my ideas and help me come up with potentially better ones, but who would make those suggestions from points of significant knowledge. The work that I do is professional quality because of the professionals with whom I associated and surround myself, without whom I would not be able to do the work I have done. I see myself like a coach of a baseball team. If my team sucks, I'm not going to look like a very good coach. I can't go on the field and play ball for them, but I can formulate the overall strategy and get my guys (and girls) ready to play ball! ;)
 
Guess what, we're the same age and both into film, so you get some good feedback. First I'm not a student, haven't even been to film school yet and might not. But skipping that, I've made plenty and plenty of shorts and one feature. I know exactly or really close to that exactly why you're going down hill. When you said friends, having a job, no car, etc I knew exactly what's going on.

I've been there and not doing it anymore starting this year 2009. All my other years 2004-2008 I always used my friends or that actor's neighborhood. I had many points where they didn't even have a phone or took many days to call their house to have their parents tell them to call back. Pretty much what the guy in the 2nd post said was get professionals or people who don't have a job, who love film to death, who love crew, acting, etc. I managed to learn producer by making nothing but plenty of phone calls, texts, emails, facebook; for that film that needed extras and/or needed to be here this day but they had work this time and those days and had to work around that till I had enough of it and it was literally killing me. Started in 2009 was when I said, ok no more friends, start from the beginning but you still know your stuff. So I wrote a story, found a writer on craigs, used a actor who did stage work and art film with some guys I knew, got my younger sister to play piano for the score, and borrowed one light, and did all the crew work myself. And I came out with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z1dLsKkKNc
After that I kept at that and it grew stronger and stronger with each direction, each actor got more and better, and crew began to grow and you'll know that feeling when you get there. My recent work is Medal of Merit and Carpe Diem (my signature)

After doing one feature I said no, I need someone with no job, I need actors, crew, and pretty much what everyone else has said in this thread. And it's getting there. Got a feature in pre production. Been working on it since a year to get it the best of the best and it's happening, slowly but still going to make it. And it'll be made with all those much better film skills I've learned.

Hope you can finish your film. Remember to never give up, don't quit because the actors are terrible.. you might learn something on your side :) Best of luck my friend!
 
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As much as I would absolutely love to work with professionals, I'm still really young and have to have a job myself, as well as finish up college. But, instead of doing nothing, I'm going through the 'film student crap' and learning what I can now.
 
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