I'm gonna buy me a mockingbird (recommendations?)

R

RaulQ

New member
First of all, hi to everyone in the dvxuser.com forums, I have been visiting this page for almost two years now and until today I decided to register because I wanted to post a few questions regarding my decision to buy a microphone. (you will pardon my english for I am from Mexico)

Here's the situation: I'm doing a feature length movie for my thesis and have a budget of about 1,500 dollars (excluding camera and mike). Yeah, it sounds ridiculous, but I know how to manage that budget, there are only non-actors, no money spent on locations, just the ocassional prop, gas and food.

I have a DVX100a, a broken tripod, and a mac to edit. But I know I need a microphone and I've looked through recommendations and found that I need a hypercardiod and a shotgun. Most of the scenes are indoors, so maybe I could rent the shotgun ocassionaly, or use the hypercardiod close to the subject.

The problem is I would want the best quality in audio even if the production isn't in that level. I've checked and the Schoeps MK41 seems the best and I would buy it if it was the only instrument I needed, but... is it? First, is it a major problem just using one mic and not getting stereo sound? What is the standard in that? Other is regarding the range, if I have two models apart for about 10 feet, can I get both their voices in a good level? Or is it almost impossible to work scenes with only one mic? For in that case I should buy two, not so expensive, hypercardiods.

Now, regarding quality. Is there really a difference in quality between a Sanken CS-1 and the Schoeps MK41, I know there is, but can a newbie like me notice it? Because that's almost double the price, maybe I could buy two CS-1. Or is there one cheaper in the same range of quality? I've heard of the Oktava, which are 200, would you rather recommend those? What would be the difference between the DVX100a audio, the Oktava and the Sanken? Perhaps I'm just crazy for buying a Schoeps when an Oktava can do the work without a harsh difference? (and I know the project sounds cheap and I should go for the Oktava, but I really don't want cheap audio)

Other thing, if I build a boompole with these instructions http://adamisaak.org/diy/boompole/ would it be stable? I don't mind if its heavy, I just don't want it to make noises. (I still don't understand why a stick can cost so much?) Is the Oktava good for cancelling boom pole noises? I guess the Schoeps would neccesarily mean buying an expensive boom pole.

One more thing, would a AT4073 be equivalent to the quality of an Oktava or would a AT897 do? And what should I expect of their long range sensibility? Would it be coherent to try and get some audio from a distance of 30 feet?

Well, those were my crazy newbie questions. Thanks.
Raul Q
 
Pure and simple... RENT! You do not need to buy, you just need to rent and you can get a Schoeps for $40 / day including cables, shockmount, wind protection, and pole. Rent... don't buy.

Or just hire someone.

-Jeremy
 
I agree - on that budget, don't buy anything when you could probably get an entire soundkit for $70 a day. (not with wireless)

30 feet? depends what your recording. you could pick up a tractor fine from 30ft, if your shooting a wide shot of a tractor! Dialogue though - i don't know why you would want to pick up dialogue from 30 ft. if its such a wide shot then use lavaliers. wired lavs even.

some shots are very difficult with one mic, of course. if you are doing a shot where two actors are ten feet apart and you will be using the sound from the wide-master shot AND their lines overlap (as opposed to using the sound from the singles), then you need two mics. not necessarily boom, but consider putting a wired lav on one of them, for example. the guys in post use voodoo to match the two microphones.


as for using a shoeps, i don't think you should.. you will not have cheap sounding audio with cheaper mics, its all about placement. some of the cheaper mics don't exactly sound like telephones.
 
Have you blocked the scene with actors 10 feet apart? That is a very unusual distance for two actors on screen to have a conversation.

And I totally agree with the above info, rent. It will take you so much further for your money. Even if there is not a place to rent in your area you can have the gear UPS to you for the run of the movie. Longer rental times will get you a better day rate.

Even if you feel renting is not for you, give a place like Coffey sound a call and give them your budget and needs to see what they can do for you. All it cost you is a phone call.

A final question, why do you not care how much the boom pole weighs? Are you the one booming? If not, are you assuming that the person who booms will have no issues with holding 6lbs over the head all day? Have some consideration for the person you put in charge of booming. I personally would quit your production after the first day of booming with that DIY pole (not trying to be harsh but this is a common issue with people who buy the pole but never actually boom themselves).

The rest of your questions are answered in the stickies.

Cheers
 
Thanks for the recommendations guys. After thinking a while I've decided to buy two oktava hypercardiod (or should I buy better one hypercardiod and one cardiod?) and a AT897 kit from bhphotovideo so it will include windscreen, pole, etc. Plus another two windscreens for the oktavas, which do you recommend?

Another question: should I buy a mixer? if I am using a DVX100a isn't it enough with the volume balance option in those cases when I am using both oktavas or an oktava and the at897? Also: is it always better to use two oktavas to create the stereo sound (even if placed in a similar position)? or is it useless to create stereo sound without a mixer? would the DVX100a capture two mono tracks? Could I mix them in postproduction?

By the way, the sound guy is 6.8 feet tall and quite heavy, it will be like holding a pencil hehe plus he can't quit, he is in the thesis with me. nobody is getting any money from this...
 
Raul, you need to stop and take a step back. You are not understanding what you need yet. One of the reasons we are pointing you to renting is that you are talking about getting two hypers (for stereo?) and are still unsure about your need for a mixer. A person doesn't understand the first thing about lighting and just run out and buy a couple of kinoflos. It is just a bad idea. Please read the stickies, get some of the book recommendations, and generally just figure out the basics of location sound before you run off and spend your money.

As for your super strong boomman, I have seen young, athletic, and extremely strong PA, grips, etc crying and shaking after 10 minutes with my Ktek pole over their head. In fact, most of the best boom ops are quite skinny; not your Schwarzenegger types. Have your boom op hold an unbalanced 9 foot, 3lb pole over his head for 5 to 10 minutes at a time, about 40 times over the course of 10 hours (multiple that by the 30 or how ever many days your shoot it). Then have him tell you then how it was like a pencil. The muscle mass won't matter, it is the stamina that keeps the pole up. And to the fact, every ounce matters as the hours pile up. Do not take this point lightly or just wait until your first day of shooting to learn how difficult this task can be.

The height will help some, but only in less apple boxes needed.

Again, please read up on some sound basics, seriously consider renting, and tell us how your boomman felt after 10 hours with his arms in the air.

To paraphrase Jeremy, "Do you want good audio, or to own some gear?"

Cheers
 
On the stereo side, you never record stereo anything on a film set unless you're doing some detailed ambience or effects work. Dialogue? Never. Its two mono tracks in your case.

I would rent if I were you. It seems you ARE trying to do some homework on this, but keep in mind that it takes a long time to get good at sound; and in your position, maybe buying something you'll regret because you didnt know any better at the time isnt a wise idea.
 
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