I'm buying it all, canon 5d, lens, steadicam, track/dolly, etc need serious advice??

W

WhereDreamsAreBorn

Carbonite Member
Ok i am finally going to be buying myself a little filmmaking kit and i am using a small loan to pay for it all. So i want the best quality at a reaosnable price. Not always easy i imagine, but a compromise does have to be made somewhere, but i am not willing to sacrifice quality for cheapness.

As its a loan i need to pay as little as posisble but get good equipment.

Do the canon 5d is a definite. Now i need a range of 3 or 4 or maybe 5 lens that will be good for shooting short films, maybe even music videos as well. I hear that i will probably need to go with Nikons for quality and also as thye are cheaper?

I need a fluid head tripod.

I need a steadicam of some sort.

A shoulder mount of some sort.

A track and dolly system.

Maybe an eyepeice to go over the lcd display.

Memory cards? How many?

How many batteries?

Anytime I record sound i will most probably have a separate sound man, recording on a DAT. Is that ok or should i approach it differently.

Is there anything else you guys think I need or should look into.

Thanks guys.
 
I guess it all depends on budget?

All these topics are addressed on the forums (individually) best thing to do is read read read.
 
I agree with MadHMC150....you list a lot of very specific topics, so search on those and you will find what you need.
 
Advice?

Search the forums.

But also, are you familiar (have used) steadicam rigs before? Not something you just walk into and pick up.

Sounds like you might be well served by some books before jumping headfirst into the whole production kits buying experience.
 
WhereDreamsAreBorn said:
Ok i am finally going to be buying myself a little filmmaking kit and i am using a small loan to pay for it all. So i want the best quality at a reaosnable price. Not always easy i imagine, but a compromise does have to be made somewhere, but i am not willing to sacrifice quality for cheapness.

As its a loan i need to pay as little as posisble but get good equipment.

Do the canon 5d is a definite. Now i need a range of 3 or 4 or maybe 5 lens that will be good for shooting short films, maybe even music videos as well. I hear that i will probably need to go with Nikons for quality and also as thye are cheaper?

I need a fluid head tripod.

I need a steadicam of some sort.

A shoulder mount of some sort.

A track and dolly system.

Maybe an eyepeice to go over the lcd display.

Memory cards? How many?

How many batteries?

Anytime I record sound i will most probably have a separate sound man, recording on a DAT. Is that ok or should i approach it differently.

Is there anything else you guys think I need or should look into.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

The only thing I'm seeing on here that should not be DIY (like a track/dolly) and that could seriously damage your budget, is the "steadicam of some sort".

If you were shooting on a camcorder (HFS100, etc), then there are lots of very good solutions (Hauge being the best IMO), but for a DSLR, because of their weight and awkward balancing act, you are suddenly leaping into several thousands of dollar for anything useful (again, IMO).

So what you might want to think about is eliminating an overwhelming need for the steadicam (which remember, wasn't around until the mid-eighties - American Werewolf in London-ish). Only in America has filmmaking become defined as "follow the actor around with a camera". Try to think more about composing specific shots and what the overall (potentially stationary) frame can do to help tell your story.

Of course it would be wonderful to always fool the viewer into never knowing when action may happen (e.g. suddenly the camera goes from fixed location to hand-held, a dead giveaway that some sort of action is about to occur), but you can accomplish that by hand-holding the camera from start to finish in a given scene. It's kind of a pain in the butt, BUT it should solve one of the major issues, I think, a steadicam solves.

I always think about one of the best actor-only action scenes ever to occur in any film when Orson Welles goes ape-sh&t and tears up his wife's bedroom in Citizen Kane, all of which was captured using a stationary camera (but potentially a marginally articulated crane). Had that been shot today, no doubt the op would have been on a steadicam, following the actor around through their tirade, completely sucking the energy out of the scene.

So unless you're doing an endless tracking shot ala Scorcese, the steadicam, IMO, is an overused tool used by filmmakers absorbed in ego trying to imitate life, not create art and manufacture story. And a sub-4K model would no doubt do you more harm than good.
 
Also for sound (and again depending on your situation) you can get reasonable HD recorders without messing with DAT. Besides if you are truly interested in making good film with all your own gear then DO NOT overlook components of your sound kit... i.e a decent couple of mics. Research, research, research! If you don't have them, make sure you know about the gear the soundman you mentioned has.
 
Chamber005 said:
The only thing I'm seeing on here that should not be DIY (like a track/dolly) and that could seriously damage your budget, is the "steadicam of some sort".

If you were shooting on a camcorder (HFS100, etc), then there are lots of very good solutions (Hauge being the best IMO), but for a DSLR, because of their weight and awkward balancing act, you are suddenly leaping into several thousands of dollar for anything useful (again, IMO).

So what you might want to think about is eliminating an overwhelming need for the steadicam (which remember, wasn't around until the mid-eighties - American Werewolf in London-ish). Only in America has filmmaking become defined as "follow the actor around with a camera". Try to think more about composing specific shots and what the overall (potentially stationary) frame can do to help tell your story.

Of course it would be wonderful to always fool the viewer into never knowing when action may happen (e.g. suddenly the camera goes from fixed location to hand-held, a dead giveaway that some sort of action is about to occur), but you can accomplish that by hand-holding the camera from start to finish in a given scene. It's kind of a pain in the butt, BUT it should solve one of the major issues, I think, a steadicam solves.

I always think about one of the best actor-only action scenes ever to occur in any film when Orson Welles goes ape-sh&t and tears up his wife's bedroom in Citizen Kane, all of which was captured using a stationary camera (but potentially a marginally articulated crane). Had that been shot today, no doubt the op would have been on a steadicam, following the actor around through their tirade, completely sucking the energy out of the scene.

So unless you're doing an endless tracking shot ala Scorcese, the steadicam, IMO, is an overused tool used by filmmakers absorbed in ego trying to imitate life, not create art and manufacture story. And a sub-4K model would no doubt do you more harm than good.
Click to expand...

If your looking to go pro, buy pro gear and I doubt a bank would like funding DIY.
 
...Had that been shot today, no doubt the op would have been on a steadicam, following the actor around through their tirade, completely sucking the energy out of the scene.

So unless you're doing an endless tracking shot ala Scorcese, the steadicam, IMO, is an overused tool used by filmmakers absorbed in ego trying to imitate life, not create art and manufacture story. And a sub-4K model would no doubt do you more harm than good.
Click to expand...

Hey Chamber, thanks foir the advice, really helpful. However, I gotta say i completely disagree with some of what you say. Although steadicam isn't a 'needed' tool, it is a very very handy, very useful tool indeed, and i certainly don't think that we have to regress to a time period before they were used in order to tell a good story. I will only ever use any filmmaking tool when i considerate to be appropriate to the material i am shooting.

I certainly don't think a steadicam shot sucks out the energy from a scene in the way you do, not at all. But these are all just opinions, no right and wrong.

However, out of all the things i have mentioned, i think the steadicam does come last on my list, and will only be bought if i can afford it. From what i know a steadicam or glidecam with vest could be bought for roughly £1000, which may be possible for me to buy.

I think i would buy a small track and dolly, but due to the small track length that i could conceivably carry around, i felt that a steadicam was useful for giving me moving/tracking shots over longer distances (Aathough i don't think Scorsese length shots would be what i do).

Also for sound (and again depending on your situation) you can get reasonable HD recorders without messing with DAT. Besides if you are truly interested in making good film with all your own gear then DO NOT overlook components of your sound kit... i.e a decent couple of mics. Research, research, research! If you don't have them, make sure you know about the gear the soundman you mentioned has.
Click to expand...

Well I am not simply making films 'with my own equipment'. I am buying the camera and stuff just to give me the freedom to shoot what i want, when i want, without losing the money on constantly renting. However, as sound is absolutely crucial, and is an area i am less confident in, i think my best bet is to ALWAYS have a separate specialist soundman.

I will happily buy the HD sound recorder, but if you think separate DAT is much better for sound, i would prefer to go with that.

If there is one thing I HATE, its bad sound.
 
Why don't you start with a basic prime set: 28, 50 and 85.
Get your viewfinder (I love the Zacuto).
Fader ND.
Get a shoulder mount, there's many to choose from. I just picked up the eyespy and love it.
For fluid heads/tripods I would recommend: Vinten 5lf, Cartoni Focus, or a Miller solo.
Zoom H4N for sound.

And there goes your first $5,000, go make a film!
 
bill totolo said:
Why don't you start with a basic prime set: 28, 50 and 85.
Get your viewfinder (I love the Zacuto).
Fader ND.
Get a shoulder mount, there's many to choose from. I just picked up the eyespy and love it.
For fluid heads/tripods I would recommend: Vinten 5lf, Cartoni Focus, or a Miller solo.
Zoom H4N for sound.

And there goes your first $5,000, go make a film!
Click to expand...

Or maybe go make a short film using the equipment and crew that you'll be using for your feature?

If you can't stomach doing a short film, then shoot a single scene from your feature. Cut, edit, correct it, and then post it online and ask for feedback.

I'm shooting a feature right now and that's exactly what I did. I "aired" two scenes, got tremendous feedback, scrapped both the scenes and then re-shot them using the feedback I got from my peers. And in the process I was even able to build a small fanbase for the film via youtube randoms and links on facebook.

My advice.
 
Thanks so far eveyone, this is really helping. Bill, out of those lenses you mentioned, what specific brand are they and what f stop marking do you recommend for each. F1.8, etc.

Also you mentioned the zacuto z-finder, well as i do want to save money, would it be ok for me to buy a cheaper viewfinder to attach to it. As i have seen some vastly cheaper. Or do i have to have the Zacuto?

Anyone any advice on where i should buy all/most of my equipment. I live in UK but will order on-line from other countries if it will save me money. Anyone know legitimate companies to buy from?
 
On the Steadicam topic, I feel compelled to add this:

[TABLE="class: border0_bottom_only wbgContent, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]If you have a challenge and a specific tool resolves that challenge, you should use it.



To me, it's that simple.


This is the same idea where special FX get used because they look cool. Not because they serve the story in the best way possible. A steadicam should be the same. You use it when it is the tool that best serves the story. Once you deviate from that you move into the self indulgent area of filmmaking. And, IMO, that is a cardinal sin in this game. And while I do not think it is the intent by the poster that cautioned using a Steadicam, you should never allow someone else's misuse of a given tool influence your decision to use or not use a tool. Whatever best serves the story should always be your guide. As to who to buy from, for new gear I HIGHLY recommend B&H Photo (http://www.bhphoto.com). That being said, you need to be mindful of what warranty you are getting for a given item. Gear sold in the US tends to have a US warranty (unless it is grey-market) that may not be applicable to your country.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
I' no expert at all on dslr cams, but lots of folks sing the virtue of the panasonic GH2 over the Canon. Do a little research.

You didn't mention audio. Your audio kit can match the cost of your cam very easily. 2-3k is a minimum for a entry level pro kit for dual sound which you are pretty much stuck with since you are going dslr. Think 3 mics, iso mounts, wind protection, pole, cables, headphones, mixer, recorder, ad infinitum.

You didn't mention lights. If you don't have any, then figure another 2-3k for a basic pro kit. Think a couple different lighting type, stands, light controls, extension cords, maybe batteries, reflectors, etc.

You do need a decent to good tripod which can easily run 1k or more. You might think used on this.

A track and dolly system is a good DIY item, you might also consider a slider instead, or possibly a Kessler Pocket Jib.

And, you need some luggage to pack this stuff around, hard or soft cases, hand truck or cart.

Maybe the best advice I could offer is to slow down a bit, buy the basic necessities like a cam, tripod, audio, and lights, then figure out what you need a piece at a time.

There are lots of folks out there who scrape a kit together for less via DIY or making due with shop lights or stuff like that. But if you are serious and considering funding for a professional venture, then the numbers I gave you are realistic.

Grant
 
Hmm... How about this for a guerrilla feature-film set-up? Prices are mostly from B&H and exclude shipping. I get about $32,000, including about $15,000 on semi-professional actors. If you can talk good actors into dodgy deferred payment contracts, maybe you could make a feature film for about $17,000. Obviously, you can cut a lot of corners along the way (borrowing gear, etc). Plenty of films that have done well were allegedly made for $5000 (search for ultra low budget filmmaking on wikipedia; I'm very skeptical that all costs are included in such numbers though).

Camera ($2000):

-- If you want to make every dollar count, just shoot it on an iPhone or Nokia N9 at 720p -- $1000. Better yet, get two phones to shoot faster ($2000).

Grip ($1130 + shipping):

-- Build your own dolly with YouTube tutorials ($100).
-- You should be able to get a more than decent tripod with fluid head for $1000. Avoid still tripods.
-- Handheld rig/steadicam/crane -- not necessary.
-- To rig a phone to a tripod, go to a car auto store and buy a suction mount that's designed to attach phone to windscreen. Add gaffer tape. ($30)

Lighting ($350 + shipping):

-- $150 on three Hong Kong dimmable LEDs from eBay.
-- $100 on gels, wooden pegs, batteries.
-- $50 on random stuff to use as lightstands -- ladders, broomsticks, etc.
-- $50 on gaffer tape. Don't use too much of it.

Computer ($2000):

-- Say, $2000? Just depends of course.

Software ($530):

-- Adobe Creative Suite 5.5 Production Premium -- $380, if you can find a student card.
-- Plural Eyes (to sync sound) -- $150

Other software might be nice, but you should be able to manage with the above...

Sound ($1900 + shipping):

-- Rode NTG3 blimp kit -- $1500
-- Tascam DR-100 -- $300
-- Sony MDR-7506 headphones -- $100

No wireless microphone in this kit, so, for wide shots, you'll have to learn the fine art of hiding sound guys behind furniture. You'll also have to be careful with battery management. If the microphone is being powered by the recorder, you might get an hour's shooting before you need to stop for an hour or two to recharge.

Actors ($14,400):

-- Of course, you can get a million people willing to do it for free, but they're unlikely to be any good. See if you can find people who are OK, who are willing to do it for $100 a day + board. If you have six actors, that's $600 a day, or $14,400 for a 24-day shoot.

Food ($5,760):

-- Say you're spending a low $20 to feed someone three meals per day, as well as tea, snacks, etc. If you have a dozen people hanging around set, that's $240 a day. For a 24-day shoot, that's $5760.

Crew (nil):

-- You plus friends.

Props + costumes + makeup ($2000)

-- Maybe $2000. Hopefully you're also paying nothing for accomodation and location, and are not paying airfares.

Random other stuff ($1000)

-- Including phone calls, paper, petrol, accidentally breaking things, etc. Always costs more than you think.

Post-production ($200)

-- Sky's the limit for deliverables, distribution, marketing. But if it's all on the net (no film transfers, etc), maybe you can get away with just the price of a website ($200).
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top