I'm beginning to get that strange feeling....

[Amadou]

I'm beginning to get that strange feeling that only the USRSA MINI PRO will give you a cinematographic look in the below 10K dollars range. The other conterders look nice but they still look like...video. Also, I'm beginning to get that strange feeling 4:2:2 10 bit it too good for low end productions and not good enough for cinema. Are my feelings heading in the right direction?

 

[William]

Whenever in doubt... Remember "content is king" ... Quoted often but true. Be it cinema, non cinema and in between. Irrespective of camera choice. Within reason of course.

 

[Bassman2003]

Nothing is ever too good, only too expensive for your budget. If you are battling price concerns buy a GH5 or GH5s and be done with the camera selection so you can move on to using your equipment

 

[NorBro]

I'm beginning to get that strange feeling that only the USRSA MINI PRO will give you a cinematographic look in the below 10K dollars range. The other conterders look nice but they still look like...video.

No doubt about it...nothing currently exists that provides that kind of look (cinema) for that money. Everything else is just really good-looking video, IMO.

 

[Amadou]

That brings us back to the basic debate. Either you go for the quality cinema look or you go for the simple to use, light and cheaper video look. Its back to Ursa vs FS5. Everything else may just be a compromise. For example the FS7 is neither cinematic nor light and cheap. It excels in nothing.

 

[Bassman2003]

Amadou, how about a different approach? Tell us what your budget and shooing requirements are. Then we can have a better discussion.

What do you shoot?
How do you shoot?
Do you have a crew or a one man band?
Is this a hobby or business, or what to be business?
What cameras do you onw now?
What cameras have you used in the past?

 

[Amadou]

Feature for limited theatrical release. I shot the previous feature on ex1 with Letus adaptor. Feature budget 30 thousand. Crew available but needs to be trained. Lights availeble. Nikon glass.

 

[abreu-canedo]

For $10k, for narratives, your best bets are used F35 or used Alexa classic. The Alexa classic may be a bit more if you need to buy media, but a good F35 kit will be around $7k and another $3k potentially to maximize it.

Do you have support like tripod, Dolly or jib? If not, then I'd say spend $500 on a used tripod with fluid head (good deals out there)$1k on a Shuttle Dolly and $2k on a Jib/legs. With the F35, this will get you to around $10k.

Alternatively, you can probably rent an Alexa with good set of primes for about $10k.

 

[Amadou]

The problem are the accessories, external ND, Matt Box, external recorder etc. By the time you're done you are back at 15 thousand. Plus you have to order on Ebay which represents delays and the uncertainty principle. On the other hand I could also buy an Ursa Mini Pro 4k and accessories and Nikon adaptor for even less. And finally the FS7 / FS5 swiss army knife solutions are roaming over it all. The reality is that there are too many options and not enough time to test it all.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for the info. There are a lot of good choices on the market today. One could say all from a GH5 up will give a great image. A lot can be gained by getting the best out of the camera. The Ursa has an interesting look. I would say its main drawback is the ISO sensitivity is a little challenged but the RAW shooting gives you a lot of flexibility.

In your situation, I would go with the image that holds your attention along with the usability of the system. It does no good for a one man band to buy an expensive cinema camera. Not saying this is you but matching your shooting needs is as important as well. YouTube and Vimeo do have a lot of examples to make a fair judgement on a camera's capabilities.

 

[thekreative]

I was just hired to shot a short and when asked about what camera I wanted use I felt they all could do what I want. I really believe that we are in a great time where most cameras are up to the task of looking film-like. To me it really comes down to lighting, lighting, and the depth of focus.......I'm pretty much stuck on f5.6

 

[Amadou]

So in my case would you recommend the FS5 or the FS7?

 

[Greg_E]

Have you contact Blackmagic? Maybe they can loan you a camera if you list them in the credits. Even if they would rent it cheap or sell you a B-stock.

What is you schedual? If after the big EU show in September, you might be able to get a lot of choices on B-stock cameras. In this case it would pay to go to the show and make some deals in person on the cameras being shown at the show. They don't really want to ship those cameras back to the warehouse.

 

[Joshua_G]

….
Crew available but needs to be trained.
...

That sounds like a potential slippery ground.
How much time do you have to train the crew? Can you mimic the settings of what you'll be shooting?
Does it include also training the sound crew? If yes, I'd suggest you'd better consult a pro sound man.

… Nikon glass.

That's limiting, very much so.

 

[Amadou]

Audio goes from 416 senheiser into the camera using XLR. I hear the FS7 preamps are good and perhaps better than the FS5 Preamps.

 

[puredrifting]

Cinema look is in the eye of the beholder. More about lighting, production value and camera movement than some magic property of the camera IMHO. The UMP can make very good looking images, but yes, for a low budget indie type thing, too slow of an imager IMHO. Low budget denotes you will have limited crew and lighting resources and that camera does not look good unless you light it and light it well.

 

[NorBro]

That's limiting, very much so.

There are hundreds of options for the Nikon mount...probably every cinema lens ever made can be bought in the F-mount.

Plus lots of lovely vintage Nikon glass.

At one point in time, it seemed like Nikon lenses (modded or not) were the only affordable cinema lenses because of their manual aperture rings.

 

[IronFilm]

Audio goes from 416 senheiser into the camera using XLR. I hear the FS7 preamps are good and perhaps better than the FS5 Preamps.

Well, you are dooming your project to bad audio before you even begin.

I'd worry less about camera you're using, and more about how to do the audio right. (and I'd hazard a guess audio isn't the only area being neglected, perhaps lighting/acting/art/etc need a second look at them as well)

 

[Joshua_G]

Audio goes from 416 senheiser into the camera using XLR. I hear the FS7 preamps are good and perhaps better than the FS5 Preamps.

Will there be an experienced boom operator? A competent and experienced boom operator is a must.
Good preamps in the camera aren't a must, since there are separate recorders with excellent preamps for reasonable price, like the Zoom F4.
Also, having the camera operator monitoring and adjusting the audio levels, on top of taking care of all the cinematography details, is a task that takes lots of experience and competence. Since you didn't shoot a movie in 10 years, perhaps it will serve you to reconsider it.

 

[Joshua_G]

There are hundreds of options for the Nikon mount...probably every cinema lens ever made can be bought in the F-mount.

Plus lots of lovely vintage Nikon glass.

At one point in time, it seemed like Nikon lenses (modded or not) were the only affordable cinema lenses because of their manual aperture rings.

That is correct, unless there are situations where autofocus is a benefit, like documentary-style shooting, talents changing distance relative to the camera without an experienced and competent focus puller, or wild life.