Ikonoskop A-Cam dII - Huge Price Drop

M

mik303

Active member
I just got an email from Ikonoskop about their new starter package.

One A-Cam dll camera body with IMS mount + one IMS to PL adapter + two 80GB memory cards + one Express Card Reader+ two Swit S-8770 batteries + one Swit S-3602F charger = 9,700 Euros Total

From what I remember, it used to cost 9700 Euros for the body alone!

I think that this package makes the camera more competitive with Scarlet and Black Magic Cinema camera, but the price is still a bit high for my tastes. The one advantage that it has over BMC in my opinion is the CCD Sensor. Other than that, I'm not sure how Ikonoskop is going to compete, but they are going in the right direction.

Competition is a good thing (for consumers)

 
That's good news.... I love the look of this camera (both the image and the camera itself). The image just has an organic look that I have yet to see from other cameras.

I will await the BlackMagic 1st though... No brainer really... If it is good, a must buy.
 
The one thing that appeals to me about the Ikonostop is that you can attach the right lenses to it.

The BMD currently seems seriously hampered by the innapropriate lens mount

Throw in global shutter

As I deal more with 8bit blurro vision and impossible DOF on over large chips this camera is coming onto my radar..

S
 
Wow, this has my interest now - I love the look and DoF of 16mm - my favourite film, "La Haine", was shot on 16mm :)

What also attracts me is the CCD and amount of great 16mm lenses on the market!

Does anyone have any low-light/ISO tests shot with the Ikonoskop A-Cam dll?
 
Hope they can sell enough to move on to a dIII with universal ssd's and an even lower price point. Despite being more money, I can see one of these being a great companion to the BMC, assuming they can be made to match well enough in grading. Global shutter ccd is a big deal, when having to deal with the limitations of cmos.
 
morgan_moore said:
The one thing that appeals to me about the Ikonostop is that you can attach the right lenses to it.

The BMD currently seems seriously hampered by the innapropriate lens mount

Throw in global shutter

As I deal more with 8bit blurro vision and impossible DOF on over large chips this camera is coming onto my radar..

S
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Out of interest, have you used any RED (Epic/Scarlet) cameras?
 
MadMonkFish said:
Out of interest, have you used any RED (Epic/Scarlet) cameras?
Click to expand...

Ive shot on Scarlet - but I was only operating so didnt play with the results

I found it easy to bump the buttons - control wheel far too loose - and I dont think there was sound on playback - the oncreen menu was dumb when mixed with a screenshade - generally at the time (april12) the Scarlet was not considered by the crew to be ready for prime time (unlike the R1 and FS100 - which were both trusted although the R1 had a tendency to go green on the monitor)
Those negative comments should be seen in the light of no camera prep time

I am sort of interested in Scarlet at 2k which could use smaller glass and smaller files and more DOF (like the Iknostop)

This is true for both Scarlet and Ikonostop and any other camera- its not just the file - to me at least - the whole package must work from imager to ergonomics..

Id only consider an Ikonstop with spending some time shooting with it which may make it a no go

Im becoming interested in an S16 raw shooter and a single zoom lens solution
-ive come to realise that a single zoom on S35 is just too big typcially 4kg and a foot long (not to mention cost)
-I like the flexibility of a raw file
-the 16mm format may just give enough out of focus to elevate the look beyond 2/3 ENG footage and practicality in terms of a smaller than 35 package

The BMD has IMO scored a total blooper with the lens mount and flange distance not to mention a chip size that is too small for still/cine lenses and too large for S16 lenses

S
 
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Honestly I'd be interested if they spent the extra money to put a codec on board... 280GB per hour is just a crazy workflow. A good codec like H.264 High444 profile, or even ProRes, would make all the difference.
 
morgan_moore said:
Ive shot on Scarlet - but I was only operating so didnt play with the results

I found it easy to bump the buttons - control wheel far too loose - and I dont think there was sound on playback - the oncreen menu was dumb when mixed with a screenshade - generally at the time (april12) the Scarlet was not considered by the crew to be ready for prime time (unlike the R1 and FS100 - which were both trusted although the R1 had a tendency to go green on the monitor)
Those negative comments should be seen in the light of no camera prep time

I am sort of interested in Scarlet at 2k which could use smaller glass and smaller files and more DOF (like the Iknostop)

This is true for both Scarlet and Ikonostop and any other camera- its not just the file - to me at least - the whole package must work from imager to ergonomics..

Id only consider an Ikonstop with spending some time shooting with it which may make it a no go

S
Click to expand...

Ahh, OK so a mix of camera ergonomics and camera system etc. I've not been active on the forum for a while, but I remember a lot of your posts (way back - LOL) about high light handling and roll off with the FS100... that's why I asked about the Epic/Scarlet as I've used them myself and been impressed with the DR - so just wondered your thoughts.

The Ikonoskop-A-Cam-DII (try saying that after a few pints!) does seem interesting for a range of reasons (CCD/16mm etc) but the physical ergonomics look odd and the post pipeline will have to be tested.
 
AtticusLake said:
Honestly I'd be interested if they spent the extra money to put a codec on board... 280GB per hour is just a crazy workflow. A good codec like H.264 High444 profile, or even ProRes, would make all the difference.
Click to expand...

Coming from a BG of raw stills I find any workflow were the WB etc is locked in the camera pretty baffling

Id prefer to shoot raw - add a curve WB and exposre corrections on a proper monitor and export to proress and then delete the raws if the client is not going to pony up for a disc

Stills wise I shoot Raw and Jpg and often only use the raw file if needed

S
 
morgan_moore said:
Ive shot on Scarlet - but I was only operating so didnt play with the results

I found it easy to bump the buttons - control wheel far too loose - and I dont think there was sound on playback - the oncreen menu was dumb when mixed with a screenshade - generally at the time (april12) the Scarlet was not considered by the crew to be ready for prime time (unlike the R1 and FS100 - which were both trusted although the R1 had a tendency to go green on the monitor)
Those negative comments should be seen in the light of no camera prep time

I am sort of interested in Scarlet at 2k which could use smaller glass and smaller files and more DOF (like the Iknostop)

This is true for both Scarlet and Ikonostop and any other camera- its not just the file - to me at least - the whole package must work from imager to ergonomics..

Id only consider an Ikonstop with spending some time shooting with it which may make it a no go

Im becoming interested in an S16 raw shooter and a single zoom lens solution
-ive come to realise that a single zoom on S35 is just too big typcially 4kg and a foot long (not to mention cost)
-I like the flexibility of a raw file
-the 16mm format may just give enough out of focus to elevate the look beyond 2/3 ENG footage and practicality in terms of a smaller than 35 package

The BMD has IMO scored a total blooper with the lens mount and flange distance not to mention a chip size that is too small for still/cine lenses and too large for S16 lenses

S
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I love the 16mm/S16mm sized format. My personal favorite for general purpose solo shooter production. Been waiting for decades for a practical digital replacement for 16mm film. New generation raw format cameras seem like the best alternative to me. They definitely have a different more organic look to them than anything shot with typical video codecs found in under $10k cameras. Storage and processing power for modest cost PC's have reached the point where raw workflows are no longer too burdensome. 280GB/hour? Piffle. A 2 terabyte drive is cheap these days and camera media are reusable. Raw is the only medium that can truly capture the full linear DR and color gamut of the camera sensor without compromise.
 
I shot a quick test with this camera out in Los Angeles a month ago with an amazing team out there - a really, really nice person and a great AC and operator and all around nice person.

I was moments from buying the camera but it just doesn't have the latitude that I need nor the sensativity to justify at the time the 18grand price. It looks beautiful and organic and I am wondering can we get there with the BMCC. I believe it is more than CCD or CMOS that can do this and what I like about the BMCC is that it says it has 13 stops of latitude and baseline ISO of 800. I put down my pre order. We will see.

One day Ill get to putting up my test footage from the Ikonoskop DII. And yes, it is a Gigabyte machine!
 
Great price drop and a beautiful camera, but with the Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera announced, I just can't fathom this camera being $9000 (when converted to $AU) better for my needs... I think the footage looks great, but I think Ikonoscop kinda missed their own boat with the A-Cam, and it is perhaps just too niche and a little too late.
 
It seems too little too late, they had quite the development process and if they'd released a year ago or even earlier i think they'd have made a lot of headway. It's still perfect for certain users because of the size. The sensor is very organic, i jury rigged a similar sort of camera out of a machine vision head with a similar sensor in. I got some lovely images from that. I would guess that the uncompressed decision is really to take advantage of the noise pattern the sensor produces - very film like and therefore any compression is going to mess with that.

I also agree that BMD made a really weird choice with those mounts! I really can't guess why, there must be a good reason though!

cheers
paul
 
eddavid said:
I was moments from buying the camera but it just doesn't have the latitude
Click to expand...

Im not saying your wrong - just interested

Did you fully explore the latitude in a raw software

Also - does lattitude matter? ie if it clips nicely that may be enough?

S
 
paulcurtis said:
It seems too little too late, they had quite the development process and if they'd released a year ago or even earlier i think they'd have made a lot of headway. It's still perfect for certain users because of the size. The sensor is very organic, i jury rigged a similar sort of camera out of a machine vision head with a similar sensor in. I got some lovely images from that. I would guess that the uncompressed decision is really to take advantage of the noise pattern the sensor produces - very film like and therefore any compression is going to mess with that.

I also agree that BMD made a really weird choice with those mounts! I really can't guess why, there must be a good reason though!

cheers
paul
Click to expand...

I guess uncompressed is less work for the camera to do

==

BMD mount.

Theory one - 4/3 - licenses are payable ?

Theory two - they had too much input from 5d2 users and didnt consider thier project from a basic engineering standpoint

Theory three BMD2 will be available in 6 months
 
latitude and sensativity matter a lot. how it blows out the highlights is not very smooth. i think this is the downside of the ccd chip vs cmos. but yes beautiful and organic. i really want to try to get there w the magic cam. if i dont that camera goes right on sale.
 
eddavid said:
latitude and sensativity matter a lot. how it blows out the highlights is not very smooth. i think this is the downside of the ccd chip vs cmos. but yes beautiful and organic. i really want to try to get there w the magic cam. if i dont that camera goes right on sale.
Click to expand...

How highlights and tonal scales are resolved has more to do with the debayer processing and exposure settings than the type of chip. Blown highlights are blown with either if you exceed the maximum exposure for the chip. The Kodak series CCD's used in the Ikonoscop and the upcoming Digital Bolex are from the same series of chips Leica has used in their M series digital rangefinder cameras. They are capable of excellent image quality when exposed within their limits.
Newer sensor designs like the BMC BAE sensor do have about a 2-3 stop advantage in total DR, but this is not a matter of CMOS vs CCD.
 
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eddavid said:
latitude and sensativity matter a lot. how it blows out the highlights is not very smooth. i think this is the downside of the ccd chip vs cmos. but yes beautiful and organic. i really want to try to get there w the magic cam. if i dont that camera goes right on sale.
Click to expand...

latitude is ability to adjust, sensitivity is .. sensitivity.. DR is how many stops can be recorded

I dont really care about any of those things but

"how it blows out the highlights is not very smooth" is to me critical - I dont know the title of that spec

S
 
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