If you shoot your first short would you choose a more unconventional script ?

Ask_the_dusk

Ask_the_dusk

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If you shoot your first short would you choose a more unconventional script or go on the safe side?

I'm shooting my first 20 min short and I wrote a script with unusual storyline. there are a lot of repetitions and a lot of surreal and absurd situations which is kind of the point of the story.
I hate giving an example in such way, but is like Samuel Becket's " waiting for godot" meets Luis Bunuel ' descrite charm of the borjuase', just a lot more darker, less dialogue and more visual storytelling .

I'm thinking: short films are not done to be sold anyway, so why not do the script that I really like even if unconventional and hope to pull it out somehow.

I'm asking this question on the directing forum too, because I want some output of director's point of view. I guess I'm a bit insecure, since a ' real' budget is involved ( I plan to shoot it on RedOne), so excuse me if I bored you with my rumbling :)
 
I think you should challenge yourself in some way, and if you feel the script is something that does just that, I'd go with it.

Think of short films as a continuing education experience. Much better to try a short than drag people along for a feature that's "experimental" and may never sell.
 
Ask_the_dusk said:
If you shoot your first short would you choose a more unconventional script or go on the safe side?

I'm shooting my first 20 min short and I wrote a script with unusual storyline. there are a lot of repetitions and a lot of surreal and absurd situations which is kind of the point of the story.
I hate giving an example in such way, but is like Samuel Becket's " waiting for godot" meets Luis Bunuel ' descrite charm of the borjuase', just a lot more darker, less dialogue and more visual storytelling .

I'm thinking: short films are not done to be sold anyway, so why not do the script that I really like even if unconventional and hope to pull it out somehow.

I'm asking this question on the directing forum too, because I want some output of director's point of view. I guess I'm a bit insecure, since a ' real' budget is involved ( I plan to shoot it on RedOne), so excuse me if I bored you with my rumbling :)
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I'd recommend making it 2 minutes or less. Then if the 'unusual storyline', or 'innovative shooting style' doesn't seem to garner the audience appreciation you expected... it's not like you lost months worth of effort.

I think you can be unconventional as hell in 2 mins... at 20 minutes many people will have turned off, gone elsewhere, etc. long before even the 10 minute mark...
 
Being able to shoot our own material with minimal interference is a luxury we may not have down the road.

So in that regard you should shoot what you want to, unconventional or not.
 
Twenty minutes can be an eternity.

Good films leave the audience wanting more.

Bad films leave the audience wanting a lot less (the audience itself may be leaving).

I've seen six minute "experimental' films that felt like hours. You mention "a lot of repetitions."

"Danger, Will Robinson."
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I'd recommend making it 2 minutes or less. Then if the 'unusual storyline', or 'innovative shooting style' doesn't seem to garner the audience appreciation you expected... it's not like you lost months worth of effort.

I think you can be unconventional as hell in 2 mins... at 20 minutes many people will have turned off, gone elsewhere, etc. long before even the 10 minute mark...
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I've seen 1 mins films that are difficult to watch.

I don't think I can tell the same story in 2mins. If I understood well what you are suggesting , I have to decide to make a 2 mins short film and only after this to think of a story. Which I don't think is a good starting point. Is the same like to create a log line for a feature and only after that start thinking of a story. I think the story has to come first. Sure that you must be aware of your limitation, but you can't start with the audience in mind and then continue backwards.

I'm aware of the attention span of the people who watch the submitted films in each of the festivals, before they decide to screen it or not to screen it. Which is usually the only audience majority of short films will ever have. Shorts are not made with the idea of being sold anyway.
 
Ask_the_dusk said:
I've seen 1 mins films that are difficult to watch.

I don't think I can tell the same story in 2mins. If I understood well what you are suggesting , I have to decide to make a 2 mins short film and only after this to think of a story. Which I don't think is a good starting point. Is the same like to create a log line for a feature and only after that start thinking of a story. I think the story has to come first. Sure that you must be aware of your limitation, but you can't start with the audience in mind and then continue backwards.

I'm aware of the attention span of the people who watch the submitted films in each of the festivals, before they decide to screen it or not to screen it. Which is usually the only audience majority of short films will ever have. Shorts are not made with the idea of being sold anyway.
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Some people do in fact start with a 'log line' or even vaguer, just an 'idea', or a premise, a 'what if'...

As for 'audience', that does figure early on... a 'story' filled with sex and violence is not going to be played to a 'G' rated audience... no matter how well crafted...

Of course a 2 minute film is going to be different than a 20 minute film... but by the same token, a large number of shorts that I see on this site could be cut by minutes, still tell the same story, and be, in my opinion, much more watchable...
 
This is the first short you've ever done? If so, 2 minutes tops. There's going to be so many things wrong with it...you'll end up so glad you only spent 8 hours shooting it.
 
You should choose to make the film that excites you the most, that you are passionate about and really want to turn into a reality. If that's an unconventional idea then go for it. I think that 20 minutes is an awkward length for a short, it's too long to be short and too short to be long, if that makes sense. I made a short recently, the first edit was 20 minutes long. It was boring as hell. I cut that down to 14 minutes and now it really works.
I think that everyone wants to reach an audience with their work, but I don't think many people are going to watch a 20 minute short, certainly not online.
Generally, almost every short I've seen should have been half the length it was. Quantity does not equal quality.
 
Your first one?
Simple and as short as possible then climb a ladder from there.

You won't believe how much you can get wrong in a 1 minute short....

Or How tough it can be to get people to do what they originally commited to (in helping you make the short).

Use as few actors as possible, as basic a story as possible and as few crew as possible but take your time to craft each shot.

Treat that 1 minute short like you would a full length feature.
Plan the shots in advance, prep your actors, do a test shoot or two to work out the most flattering angles, find a nice location with great depth and dynamics.

Then shoot a gorgeous 1 minute piece that tells a story.

If you fail, try again.

Once you get the hang of it, take that template and apply it to a six minute piece and so forth.

The easier the shoot, the easier it is to try again if you fail.
trying again is the most important thing because experience is a great ally!

I shoot tons of micro shorts between features to keep me in practice and hone my technical skills.
As a Director, it helps me understand the language of my DP, Grips and Editors on set and I get to experiment with pace.
no such thing as too much experience so crank out those micro shorts like a bottle plant dude!

0.02c
 
I agree on the awkward lent thing. My case is even more awkward. The first draft I wrote was 26 p, I cut some and come to 20. Now that I'm doing the budgeting I realize that I have no money for one of the locations and 1 extra day that requires, so will come down to 17 pages. Seems like if the story by itself start to unload the unneeded luggage ( pages) without me doing it consciously . Will see what will come up down the road.
But certainly I cannot go down on the 2 minutes range.
 
Ask_the_dusk said:
I agree on the awkward lent thing. My case is even more awkward. The first draft I wrote was 26 p, I cut some and come to 20. Now that I'm doing the budgeting I realize that I have no money for one of the locations and 1 extra day that requires, so will come down to 17 pages. Seems like if the story by itself start to unload the unneeded luggage ( pages) without me doing it consciously . Will see what will come up down the road.
But certainly I cannot go down on the 2 minutes range.
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Pocket this short, keep it for later, and write something extremely simple with no dialogue. If you start big like this you'll run into so many issues that you're unsure how to fix and it will drive you absolutely mad, not only that, but the mistakes you make will be big mistakes. Mistakes that will probably leave the film unwatchable, and that 5 months you spent getting it together will be wasted.

If you spend a week getting together a 1 minute film that sucks, it's not a big deal. Churn out these first shorts as quickly as you can, so you can get the stupid mistakes over with. As silly as it sounds, it's quantity not quality at this point. Don't worry, I remember wanting my first short films to be really good too, but the faster you learn that good movies are impossible to make and you embrace the fact that your films will suck, the faster you'll start to learn. : )

Good luck!
 
First off, if this is your first short film, then you should honestly assess what you are trying to accomplish with it. Are you looking to better understand a style of shooting, or what camera decisions you like, and perhaps are you seeking to understand how to work with actors to express differing emotions? These are all factors that you need to understand concretely before moving forward with production. Answering these questions will help you determine what exactly you will need for your film and will help give you a better ballpark for the length required for your film.

Additionally, repetition is a dangerous word, especially when doing a short film, because unless the story is essentially dependent on the reoccurrences that you are suggesting, seeing the same thing over and over again will be a turn off to the audience and they will lose interest. If it is required, I would suggest finding ways to highlight the reoccurrences in a way where it has some new element that will again captivate the audience’s attention and help them understand why they are again seeing this element(s).

Also, while you say short films are not meant to be sold, this does not make them any less important. Short films are opportunities to experiment and challenge yourself to try new things and learn new skills. If you are making this just for kicks, then do whatever you want. Try anything and everything so that you can learn and grow from the experience. If you are however doing this to accomplish a film festival or some sort of distribution however, I would carefully think over what would be the best overall decision for your film so that you produce the best overall product possible.

To conclude, I would also like to say that, if this is your first film, I would advise against shooting on the RedOne. While it is a phenomenal camera and produces high quality results, it is fairly complex and unless you have someone who is very familiar with the camera there to walk you through every step of running it, (or unless you yourself are very familiar with it) it would probably only slow you down and limit the capabilities of what you can do, especially for en experimental film. The gear required to use such a camera is far more costly and more delicate than if you were to use a lesser quality camera. Additionally, if you are hampered by using such a camera, or by trying to try all these experimental ideas with your film, it could take much longer than you think to film it all, and as we all know, excessive and extended production days does not usually bode well for crew moral. Better to make things as simple and easy as possible, learn, and continue on perfecting your craft.

Overall, I wish you the best of luck on your project.
 
Ask the Dusk, why did you bother asking when you weren't going to listen to what anyone said? were you just hoping that everyone would tell you it was a good idea? If you really care about this script, then save it for later, your first short is garbage, no matter what. It takes a LONG LONG time to figure out how to control pacing, mood, the actors and a crew. Also, unless you're either paying them or a master administrator, odds are the movie will either never get finished or you'll end up having to cut so many corners on set that the entire project will be completely incomprehensible.
 
Ask_the_dusk said:
If you shoot your first short would you choose a more unconventional script or go on the safe side?
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I'd spend $8.49 for the Kindle edition of "How Not to Make a Short Film: Secrets from a Sundance Programmer" and then consider what to make.

Great advice, whether you're making a short film for festivals, your friends and family, your self... For most people here, the goal is to make a living as a filmmaker. If that's your goal, then I encourage you to start out on the right foot. Develop good habits today and that will be less for you to worry about in the future.
 
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keylight said:
I'd spend $8.49 for the Kindle edition of "How Not to Make a Short Film: Secrets from a Sundance Programmer" and then consider what to make.

Great advice, whether you're making a short film for festivals, your friends and family, your self... For most people here, the goal is to make a living as a filmmaker. If that's your goal, then I encourage you to start out on the right foot. Develop good habits today and that will be less for you to worry about in the future.
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I had a look at the book you recommended. Seems
Interesting and witty, there are not that much book written on making of short films. Thanks for the reference .
 
Hey Dusk!

I'm a Highschool Student that made my first short several years ago. I planned it to be 10 minutes and ended up making a 2 minute short. Why? I lacked experiences, I ended up having to cut so much stuff out to make continuity and dialogue work. The story suffered a lot! Thinking back, it felt more like a Cinematography Reel. Nowadays, I'm making 1-3 minute shorts and occasionally a 6-7 minute short. And trust me, the experiences of these several minute shorts really do help when you make a longer one down the road.

Personally, I advice you make a shorter film about something you care about, something you enjoy. But also give yourself some chances to try out making some genres of work such as Horror or Romance as each gives you a different set of essential skills which you'll not regret having in the future!

Go with a short 2 minute film about something you care about. Shelve that script you love and work on it for a few years. Then, bring it out and apply your expertise and experience! You'll be much happier with the results!
 
Not sure where you're getting a nice budget like that from for your first short, a 20 minute short.
I'd suggest break up the funding into shorter length projects, more films more experience!

I'm re-working my first short down and down all the time from learning more about the craft everyday, never unhappy to see it get thinner... Means less work and stress later when organising everything as a first time director.

Love to hear the synopsis!
 
you are just as likely to get hired to direct from a short as a feature and I stand by that statement.
there are two keys to that puzzle.
1) The short has to be amazing.
but even more importantly than that: the short has to be amazing to the person who can hire you which brings us to two:
2) It has to be seen by the gatekeepers.
 
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