IBC 2012 - Any signs of a larger sensor "handlecam"...?

Spartacus

Spartacus

Veteran
I´m still wondering why we have so many options of larger sensor cameras now, but none with a fixed lens. IBC is up next and although it isn´t famous for big releases, maybe there is news of a camcorder so many want(ed).
I haven´t really followed the rumors the last year, I guess a AF100 follow up wouldn´t be that far stretched, but I´m thinking more of a HVX200 / EX1 style handlecam with a fixed manual lens.
Doesn´t have to be infamous the 3K for 3K Scrarlett, but...
Or am I just getting too old, is this segment done?:huh:
 
Spartacus said:
I´m still wondering why we have so many options of larger sensor cameras now, but none with a fixed lens. IBC is up next and although it isn´t famous for big releases, maybe there is news of a camcorder so many want(ed).
I haven´t really followed the rumors the last year, I guess a AF100 follow up wouldn´t be that far stretched, but I´m thinking more of a HVX200 / EX1 style handlecam with a fixed manual lens.
Doesn´t have to be infamous the 3K for 3K Scrarlett, but...
Or am I just getting too old, is this segment done?:huh:
Click to expand...

JVC is coming out with, or has already released, a 4k fixed lens camera. Small sensor size, but large resolution.
 
Fixed lens doesn't make sense for a large sensor camera. You would wind up at best with something like the 14-140 Panasonic lens, or the 18-200 Sony. Slow, not constant speed. Anything else would get too big and heavy and too expensive for a fixed lens camera. Closest thing to this is the Sony VG-20 at present. You can always get that and just not take the kit lens off.:)
 
Is it really that hard? Although being in the business for quite some time I have to admit that I don´t know poopoo about lens/camera engineering. But when I see consumer compact cameras like the Pana Lumix-DMC-FZ200 superzoom with constant F2.8 aperture lens or the new Sony RX100 with a 1" sensor (but no constant aperture), I always think, come on guys that should be doable in the 5K pro-segment...
It doesn´t have to be 4K and APS-C size, but sth like the classic 2/3" or going towards MFT sensor size like the AF100. Seems like the old "protecting the pro shoulder cam segment" problem...
 
I don't think there is a high enough demand for this type of camera. If I see correctly you want an ENG shouldercamera with a 2/3" chip and 4K resolution. These camera's are usually used in broadcast environments. Why would you need 4K for that? There are no 4K tv's in homes, nobody is broadcasting in 4K. Besides that the lowlight quality of such a camera would be horrendous. So many pixels packed onto such a small chip...
 
I Hope Sony is going to announce a release date for the 4K upgrade of the FS700 along with the price of the RAW recorder...
 
After the 8K demonstrations at the Olympics the 4k format is already being test broadcasted. If the consumers respond favorably to the 4k format the industry may ramp up production of 4K televisions , 4k cameras and may offer 4K broadcasting before the end of the year. The Panasonic HDC-Z10000 sensor already outputs 4K by pixel shifting so it could be modified to record 4K.
 
androbot2084 said:
After the 8K demonstrations at the Olympics the 4k format is already being test broadcasted. If the consumers respond favorably to the 4k format the industry may ramp up production of 4K televisions , 4k cameras and may offer 4K broadcasting before the end of the year. The Panasonic HDC-Z10000 sensor already outputs 4K by pixel shifting so it could be modified to record 4K.
Click to expand...


It took decade from test broadcasted to actual wide use of HD. Even about 20 years after I first heard about HD, not even 50% of the TV programs are in HD and I mean 720p or 1080i. So big optimism on your part. Until now, I don't see one people complaining about the 2k cinema output around me and I guest 99% of viewers would not see any big benefit. Even if for me the move from SD to 1080p is a dramatic improvement, I guess we will see diminishing returns from 1080p to 4k and most Joe consumer will be caring more about food shelter for his family with the global recession slow down of the economy.
 
When comparing the Olympics which is traditionally broadcasted at interlace 1440x540i versus 4K which is 3840x2160p progressive scan at 60 to 120 frames per second I think there is going to be a dramatic difference in picture quality. Even if I only had a 1080p television I would still get 3 times the picture quality with that 4k signal going into my TV. People are getting tired of interlace artifacts and HD light broadcasting and are looking for the real high definition.

And as far a Joe consumer. If he can get 4K over the air for free he won't even need a job.
 
androbot2084 said:
People are getting tired of interlace artifacts and HD light broadcasting and are looking for the real high definition.
Click to expand...

Not saying that 4K wouldn't be an upgrade from HD, but I will say that, outside of a select group of home theatre enthusiasts talking shop online, I've never heard anyone make this complaint in my life. This is def not an issue for typical consumers.

androbot2084 said:
And as far a Joe consumer. If he can get 4K over the air for free he won't even need a job.
Click to expand...

Unless he wants a way to actually pay for his $30,000 4K TV. Oh, and his food, housing, utilities, etc.
 
The consumer votes with his/her wallet. 75% of entertainment dollars spent on media, are still spent on standard-def DVD; blu-ray only gets 25%.

I don't see any mass consumer outpouring of demand for 4K HDTVs any time soon.

According to Broadcast Engineering, in a survey done of 40 countries, HDTV penetration is only at about 26% right now. Obviously it's higher in America, but around the globe only 1/4 of the households even have an HDTV. They're expecting a big push in adoption rates of HDTV by 2016. But ... that's HDTV, not 4K, and that's four years from now. So if 4KTV were to become a reality, when would it be a viable market? 2025?
 
Barry, I think you're right. BTW, 4K could actually be a transitional format. Kind of like HD1 720 was. The new 8K frame size could be fleshed out enough to be practical by the time the next upgrade cycle happens full force.

It seems like skipping a generation is often the way these things go. 4K may wind up being the Windows 98/Vista of formats.
 
Ok, this totally went of in the wrong direction - well not for you guys obviously, but for why I started it;)
With "handlecam" I refer to HVX style camcorders. Don´t know if this is the common term, but I use it since DVX days.
Anyways, I was just wondering, if one of the big two would go for a "standard" HD (no need for 4K yet) FIXED LENS camcorder, with a chip bigger than what´s currently out there (EX1).
Actually, I just want the HPX250 with the AG101 sensor;)
I just like the idea of having a "just grab it and shoot" camera - at least for anything else than cinematic narrative stuff.

Edit: Anyone remember the first RED concept of 3k for 3k? I´d still buy 2k for 3k in an instant ;)
 
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