I want to make money for you.

Chamber005

Carbonite Member
So I've got another thread happening in the DVXuser News forum on this and was urged by a couple of people to just do the damn thing myself.

I'm only in about month 5 of learning filmmaking. I've been a writer most of my life and decided that I need to learn how to make movies instead of waiting around for someone to make them for me.

I've got a long way to go before I'm ready to start making movies myself, but I'm ready for something, right?

It's going to be a couple years before I have anything of my own to sell, so right now I'm stuck with all my real life working (non-creative) talents being sidelined until then.

Unless I can find someone here who has similar sensibilities to my own, who has a proven track record and who wants me to help raise money for them on their next project.

There are obviously some terms, so I'll get on them straight away:

A) Resonable budget. If you've secured funding for yourself before you know what reasonable is. I see people making decent indie films for 85K. Obviously someone who already owns their own equipment, has some people they've worked with would be a plus.

B) You must have a company. LLC, Inc, whatever. I can't raise money for someone if you're just an individual.

C) "Proven track record" can mean a lot of different things. Maybe you've won some awards, placements? Maybe you just have a few short films that no one voted for but that I personally think kick major ass. Ideally proven track record would indicate that you've at some point in your career actually sold a micro budget narrative flick. That would be huge.

D) The script. I have to see the script and have some kind of input regarding it. If you don't have a script then together we'd look at people here and maybe have some kind of a contest. I have scripts myself, but that's a separate thing that I'll be doing for myself down the road.

E) Apart from learning, gaining connections, etc, I want nothing to do with the making of the film myself. If you're the director I decided to get behind it's because I believe in your ability to make a movie. I'm in Chicago, and since most of you are in California there's a good chance we won't see each other much.

F) With the exception of wanting to have some input in the scripting process, I am strictly of the raising-money capacity. I would prefer someone who already has a producer (or is knowledgeable enough themselves to produce) who understands working with insured funds as well as distributors as I'd be no help whatsoever on that end.

G) Budgeting. I don't care what you spend your money on so long as there is something set aside for marketing. Marketing is cheap (especially when you're not paying for the person actually designing and implementing the marketing but only the raw materials), but it needs to be a factor in the final budget.

I work commission for a living so I have no problem with the notion of "I make money when you make money". I can't promise the specific dollar amount I can raise for you, but I can tell you that I'm no slouch when it comes to money matters.

Raise your hand if you're interested and we'll see what's what.

EDIT: Or maybe not.

Legalese:

The other major source of funds, equity financing, is problematic because
a securities offering memorandum (or disclosure document commonly referred to
as a "Private Placement Memorandum or PPM") is required to raise money from
investors outside of your family no matter how small the amount involved. Full
disclosure is required under the securities laws and notice filings are required by
the federal Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") and by the laws of
each state in which investors reside (known as "Blue Sky Laws"). Violations of
the SEC requirements and the applicable Blue Sky Laws carry both criminal and
civil penalties.​


A business plan IS NOT a Private Placement Memorandum
. A business​

plan and a securities offering memo serve very different functions. A business​

plan is a marketing document created from a selling point of view, which

necessarily contains optimistic information, forward-looking statements, hopes
and dreams, and possibly financial projections. A securities offering memo, on
the other hand, is a full disclosure document, which must contain all the bad
news, risks, and must list and comment upon all possibilities that could go wrong.
In order to safely comply with these laws, a producer should work with an
attorney who is familiar with both entertainment and securities regulation. This is
not a “do-it-yourself” type of project nor is it wise to "cut and paste" portions of
other PPM documents that you find on the web because the producer, without
help of securities counsel, has very little notion of what provisions and
information are needed.​







The following is a summary of some of issues that arise when preparing a​

private placement investment offering under this exemption:2

1. No General Solicitation. The producer may not engage in
any “general solicitation.” This basically means that investors are limited
to people that the producer actually knows, such as business associates,
friends and family. The producer may not advertise for investors in a
newspaper, or use a general mailing list or any other means of mass
communication. There are specific rules regarding general solicitation,
and an attorney can help to clarify exactly what a producer may and may
not do when approaching potential investors.
2. Accredited investor requirements. All investors must be
“accredited investors.” An “accredited investor” is a person of high net
worth, or certain kinds of banks or corporations. There are exact
numbers and specific requirements that a person, bank, or corporation
must meet in order to be considered “accredited.” These rules are
complex and change from time to time as the laws are updated. When
making an initial pitch, a producer can target people or corporations who
probably have high net worth. However, before finalizing the deal, the
producer must coordinate with an attorney, and review the investor’s
financial statements, in order to make sure the investor is indeed
“accredited.”
3. Disclosure requirements. A producer should present
potential investors with a “private placement memorandum” or a “PPM.”
The PPM is a document that discusses the business plan, the nature
and structure of the investment, and the potential risks involved. While
securities laws do not specifically require the PPM, it is nonetheless a
critical document. By communicating with investors through a PPM, a
producer can significantly reduce the possibility of lawsuits or criminal
charges down the road. A PPM is more than just a business plan; it is a
carefully drafted legal document and should be prepared by an attorney.
4. Filings. There are certain documents that the producer must
file with the state and Federal governmental authorities when issuing
securities. Securities laws require these filings, and the filings act to
alert the relevant governing bodies that the producer is conducting an
exempt securities offering.
​
​









:::whistles:::​


So the thing that really cripples me is the whole "general" solicitation thing. The other legal matters would be handled by whomever's company I was raising the money for, but being unable to cold sell people severely inhibits my ability to raise funds, and if you add onto that the fact that I can't raise money from anyone who isn't an "accredited investor"...​

Wowza. ​

I guess the only way around it is to essentially give someone a producer credit, right? Is that how people get around this bizarre law? If someone gives you 10,000 dollars for a producer credit and sign on accordingly, then they're no longer an investor, they're a producer, right?​

Still, kind of a bummer. I was all excited. ​

Maybe just meet me over in the DVXnews thread under "Should DVXuser start a production company". Maybe enough of us can get together and get behind a director here and call ourselves producers. ;)​

 
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Nathyn is in Chicago. He has the project; everything is ready ... except for the funds. He has made movies and he has sold them.
 
Nathyn is in Chicago. He has the project; everything is ready ... except for the funds. He has made movies and he has sold them.


Yeah, it looks like a no-go with the whole raising funds thing, though. The only way would be to find producers, and that's a completely different animal than finding investors.

There may be some hope on these forums in regards to forming some kind of a production alliance, but I think most "producers" here would want to be able to take part in the actual on-set production, and I'm not sure how many people are in Chicago.
 
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I guess the only way around it is to essentially give someone a producer credit, right? Is that how people get around this bizarre law? If someone gives you 10,000 dollars for a producer credit and sign on accordingly, then they're no longer an investor, they're a producer, right?​

Wrong, and I hope you were at least half joking when you said this. It looks like you have done some homework, but you really need to talk to a securiites lawyer before you set off in a heavily regulated line of work like this, particularly if you are planning to go out raising money for other people.
 
Wrong, and I hope you were at least half joking when you said this. It looks like you have done some homework, but you really need to talk to a securiites lawyer before you set off in a heavily regulated line of work like this, particularly if you are planning to go out raising money for other people.


Well obviously I'm no longer going to be able to raise money for other people. About the only thing I can do is form some sort of producer alliance on here or elsewhere to make that happen.

And I think I'm pretty clear on what a producer is and what the law says about them. If I approach a filmmaker and ask to be a producer on his/her project in exchange for my 10,000 dollars, there's no "half joking" in that. I'm not purchasing a stake in the project, I'm purchasing the right to be a producer on the project.

But if your point is "don't go out and raise money for other people by telling 'investors' that they can be producers if they fork over the cash", then yes, obviously I have no desire to do that.
 
if you are investing equity and expecting a return, you are in regulated territory. If the $10k is a donation, no strings attached, and you are not seeking to own a piece of the film in return, then I believe you are in the clear.
 
if you are investing equity and expecting a return, you are in regulated territory. If the $10k is a donation, no strings attached, and you are not seeking to own a piece of the film in return, then I believe you are in the clear.

And the middle ground (e.g. producing) wouldn't be regulated by the SEC either, correct? If you're a producer on the film (even if those duties are limited to only investing in the film you're helping to produce), there's no legalities outside of normal company to individual interactions, right?
 
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do a search on Google for "investing in movies vs. the stock market"

click on the first link

or:
http://www.releasing.net/featurefilmproduction/money-matters/


lol I think it's kind of funny because this article is absolutely tight roping the illegal act of "general solicitation". Only because the writer states "I'm not asking you to invest in my films" does it potentially remove any legal action against the filmmaker who's making the pitch. And then he goes on to tell people to check with their accountant, lawyer etc while also mentioning his/her own track record. Seems like dangerous territory to me based on what I've recently learned about nabbing investors for your flick.

Regardless though, the fact that the author has to bury between the lines his/her intent with this article is just so depressing IMO. As a salesman I know what it's like to have my pitching abilities stunted by some guy in a booth telling me what I can and cannot say. And I've said it before and I'll say it to my last breath, laws that protect adults from themselves are a dispicable thing. If someone wants to invest 100,000 dollars in bobble head Betty Boops at the behest of a good salesman, then they should be allowed to do so.

The laws aren't going to change, though, which means that the rich will always and forever more easily get richer than will the average Joe.

Heck, I even tried working with the Illinois Production Alliance and they wouldn't let me through the door unless I had already produced something. Me, a guy willing to go out and knock on doors, cold call, do whatever it takes just to be a part of their club helping to manifest a project of an artist whose work I believe in.

It is what it is, though. If I have to form my own production company and assemble my own producers and find my own talent that's fine. Notice that the website after all is The Great Independent, right? ;)

Mad, mad world.
 
As a salesman I know what it's like to have my pitching abilities stunted by some guy in a booth telling me what I can and cannot say. And I've said it before and I'll say it to my last breath, laws that protect adults from themselves are a dispicable thing.

These laws protect people from liars, scam artists and snake oil salesmen. The SEC doesn't go far enough and there are plenty of high profile recent examples of this.
 
These laws protect people from liars, scam artists and snake oil salesmen. The SEC doesn't go far enough and there are plenty of high profile recent examples of this.

We can agree to disagree. I bought a 1500 dollar vaccum once. Probably won't do that again because it wasn't any better than a 50 dollar one. But see, I'm now better educated and more thoughtful when I approach a large purchase because there was no law protecting me from not purchasing that vaccum. It was a complete scam, I was duped, and I'm better and stronger for it. A society of people being protected from themselves is, IMO, a weaker society.

But that's all really off topic. To me, business is cut throat and real. The strong thrive and the ill informed die. That says nothing about me as a person, business pertains to matters of business just like money only matters to money matters. As long as you don't break the law or intentionally "scam" your clients, it's all fair game. A scam artist, IMO, is not a business person, they're a thief, a criminal, a bank robber. That's why we have licenses, so that if someone is a thief or a criminal their license is taken away. Being licensed to do business has nothing to do with laws that protect people from their own bad decisions.

If someone breaks the law they should deal with the consequences. I can't sell you a stock and tell you LIES about that stock. But if I want to sell you on potential factual data about that stock, I see no reason why I should be prevented from doing so. I feel the same way about the cost of doing business. If I want to charge you 10 or 15 points (upfront, not in borrowed terms) and you agree, I should be able to charge that amount.

Again, business is cut throat and real. If you're not in business to win and succeed in matters pertaining to business you will every single time fail miserably as a business person. That's why most people steer clear of the front lines and just take their paycheck and live their life. The guy pushing the papers so that the stock broker has them filed correctly for his next sale is still just as engaged in the process of business as is that stock broker, they just don't have to deal with the big decisions in the moment, on the line.

Fact is, I think a filmmaker should be able to raise money for his/her flick from whomever he/she wants. The law prevents that which means the studios will always crush the common man. See, that's business. Studio and big money wins, Average Joe loses. Thus the only way to compete is to band together, ego aside, and operate as business people do instead of operating like a bunch of no-sacks sitting on the sidelines waiting for some big studio to come and sweep them off their creative feet.
 
I share your sentiments, Chamber. You can talk to as many people as you want as far as telling them about your movie project or some other person's movie project; this is all on a personal level. What you can't do is take out an ad in a newspaper or other media and solicit investors. The word "investor" and "investment" is viewed critically by the SEC and the Dept. of Corporations in your state.

You can ask people for money to make a movie; but you can't ask them "to invest", unless you have created the investment vehicle according to the laws.

You can't ask strangers though, because you might run into an SEC investigator or a CPA or someone who is connected with government business. So you say, hello, and introduce yourself. You get to know someone on a "personal level." Then ... after a while -- this is variable and subject to interpretation -- you can bring up the subject that you're working on a movie project.

Now there is something also as "participating partners". They are not "silent partners", so if you ask them for money, then it's okay, because you're asking them to become your partners. They might say, "No, we're not interested in the movie business; we just want to make sure we're getting our money back and maybe make a little profit." That's ok.

So there are lots of ways to raise money; otherwise no one would be able to do business. We're supposed to be a free enterprise system, right?
 
I share your sentiments, Chamber. You can talk to as many people as you want as far as telling them about your movie project or some other person's movie project; this is all on a personal level. What you can't do is take out an ad in a newspaper or other media and solicit investors. The word "investor" and "investment" is viewed critically by the SEC and the Dept. of Corporations in your state.

You can ask people for money to make a movie; but you can't ask them "to invest", unless you have created the investment vehicle according to the laws.

You can't ask strangers though, because you might run into an SEC investigator or a CPA or someone who is connected with government business. So you say, hello, and introduce yourself. You get to know someone on a "personal level." Then ... after a while -- this is variable and subject to interpretation -- you can bring up the subject that you're working on a movie project.

Now there is something also as "participating partners". They are not "silent partners", so if you ask them for money, then it's okay, because you're asking them to become your partners. They might say, "No, we're not interested in the movie business; we just want to make sure we're getting our money back and maybe make a little profit." That's ok.

So there are lots of ways to raise money; otherwise no one would be able to do business. We're supposed to be a free enterprise system, right?

And the latter "participating partners" seem to typically be "producers" in the credits. I think that if I can form an alliance here and/or possibly elsewhere of persons interested in uniting and learning the real nuts and bolts of the business of filmmaking (and maybe some creative pointers as well), the director of our choosing would allow us to come on as producers so long as our contracts were limited to essentially zero creative involvement.

But the chance to market and promote a film, to find out all the right strings to pull and where to pull them in our own cities? I can't imagine a more fulfilling education in business.

It's like I said, *I* personally won't have a saleable feature for some years, but that's no reason I (and others like me) shouldn't start learning how to agressively market someone else's film that we helped to produce (financially or otherwise). Even if I only got a few people together and we threw together a few thousand bucks with a guy in Philly, one in Boston and one in Dallas, me in Chicago, working with a director in LA, promoting "our" film in our own cities and markets. It would be absolutely invaluable and I hope others raise their hands to be involved. I'm going to do it regardless, but the STRENGTH in numbers is just so, so impressive and so much more rewarding and gives the film a much higher chance at succeeding.
 
And the middle ground (e.g. producing) wouldn't be regulated by the SEC either, correct? If you're a producer on the film (even if those duties are limited to only investing in the film you're helping to produce), there's no legalities outside of normal company to individual interactions, right?

This is not necessarily true. If you are talking about creating a producing "syndicate," as you mentioned earlier, it is my understanding that this raises questions concerning whether you have created a security subject to regulation. And as far as I know, just calling a passive investor a "producer" would not be likely to immunize activity that otherwise would be subject to SEC regulation. This is a complicated area that I personally would not want to venture into without the advice of a good securities lawyer or entertainment lawyer with private placement experience.
 
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This is not necessarily true. If you are talking about creating a producing "syndicate," as you mentioned earlier, it is my understanding that this raises questions concerning whether you have created a security subject to regulation. And as far as I know, just calling a passive investor a "producer" would not be likely to immunize activity that otherwise would be subject to SEC regulation. This is a complicated area that I personally would not want to venture into without the advice of a good securities lawyer or entertainment lawyer with private placement experience.


And like I said this is the beginning stages of things for me in this business. Right now I'm pulsing out interest levels, etc. looking into different directors and their films. If indeed some sort of an alliance of friends was formed I would then take the next step. But right now it's just me out here looking for projects to back.
 
Scor

Scor

You should look into the SEC's SCOR program, specifically form U-7. It allows you to raise up to $1 million per year with significantly streamlined registration requirements.

Under a SCOR offering, a company can advertise for investors, and sell securities to anybody who expresses an interest. Obviously, this gives businesses a much-needed tool for raising capital. Small companies have successfully used SCOR to sell stock without a securities underwriting firm. This works particularly well with an established customer base or other supportive source of investors.

Form U-7 has been developed pursuant to the Small Business Investment Incentive Act of 1989 (now contained in Section 19 of the Securities Act of 1933) which prescribes state and federal cooperation in furtherance of the policies expressed in that Act of a substantial reduction in costs and paperwork to diminish the burden of raising investment capital particularly by small business, and a minimum interference with the business of capital formation.

Form U-7 is the general registration form for corporations registering under state securities laws, securities that are exempt from registration with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") under Rule 504 of Regulation D. It is designed to be used by companies and their attorneys and accountants which are not necessarily specialists in securities regulation.
 
If you are interested, i have a documentary (with reenactment scenes) with $46k budget that needs to get off the ground.
 
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