i think i had an epiphany (?)

F

Fahad

Veteran
I have read, time and again, that the start of a story, the theme, the moral, the driving force, should be the first consideration before doing an outline. I'm inclined to believe that. But, what I found frustrating was, coming up with something like 'stealing is bad', 'violence begets violence', etc. were all too obvious. Meaning: there's nothing particularly poetic (read: artistic) about those statements. Morals on their own don't hold up to an emotionally engaging experience (read: stories). People don't like to be told what to do, but rather shown to think (about something).

Long story short, I came to figure that the most concise way to deliver a moral tale was through poetry. Not a long poem, just a dozen or so sentences, which get to the gist of what you're getting at. It wasn't that hard. Just start off with something as simple as "once upon a time there was a man with a gun. He had nowhere to hide, nowhere to run." etc. From those first sentences I was able to come up with a complete story that had a (somewhat) poetic value. In addition to all the books/articles I've read about story development, the starting point for my newly discovered approach was Invisible Ink Seven Easy Steps to a Better Story, which is:

Once upon a time:
And everyday:
Until one day:
And because of this:
And because of this:
Until finally:
And ever since that day:

So I figure once I had that, I could take the story, give it as many characters as it needs (to enhance the emotional drama), put it in any setting (genre), and give it a culturally relevant spin (socio-political statement).

what was your epiphany? what is your approach?
 
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31 views, no opinions.... it's ok to tell me i'm out of my mind :D

i'd just like to know what others' approaches are.
 
I don't think you need to know the theme before you start writing, I think that can cripple you, but you better figure it out by the time you're done. My 'epiphany' came when I learned that the theme is stated by the resolution. How the story gets resolved is where your theme lies. The theme of Star Wars isn't just good defeats evil. It's good triumphs over evil because Luke Skywalker believes in something greater than himself. At the climax, he uses the force to blow up the Death Star instead of relying on his computers.
 
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It's been pointed out in numerous screenwriting books that most themes are quite simple, obvious (as "points", that is), and even prosaic. Like most good vs. evil themes (for example Star Wars IV, which is a great film IMO) that basically say, well, "good is good and evil is bad". Profound, no?

No...

But the larger point of the thematic basis in a screenplay recommendation is twofold:

First, having a well developed theme is almost always better than not having one, which sounds like another obvious point, but isn't when you consider how many (usually pretty bad) movies basically don't: a lot of stuff happens, people fall in and out of love/lust/greed/avarice/goodness, stuff blows up, damsels get rescued, etc., etc., etc., The End. You leave the theater going "uh...nah...". The recent Robin Hood movie by Ridley Scott would be a good example of this IMHO. WC Martell posted a link here recently to a fascinating article that detailed how that film had its previously compelling thematic/storytelling underpinnings surgically removed during the course of its production.

Secondly, like the old saying about size, it's not the theme; it's what you do with it. If you examine the fundamental theme in almost any great film (like Casablanca or Citizen Kane, for example) it's clearly there (I'll take a shot: Rick's ruined life is miraculously healed by his unselfish love for Ilsa, the very one who ruined it in the first place; Kane is an epic tale on the dark consequences of extreme wealth and egomania). Hardly earth-shaking, unprecedented originality in either case. But what makes these movies classics of the first order is how those archetypal themes were crafted into excellent filmmaking in every other way: story, script, character, acting, setting, directing...

So yes, a theme, all of which are well-worn, is much better than none, but *how it plays out* in your story, aside from having one in the first place, is basically everything.

My $.02
 
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i completely agree with both of you.

@Batutta:
i actually came to this conclusion sitting on the couch. i was trying to think of a scenario in which something bad happens to someone. then i was thinking of the type of person that would happen to. then i thought of what moral/theme could arise from the combination of that person and that scenario. so from that i started writing it down as simple as i could, in rhyme.

what resulted is a thematic poem that serves as an abstract version of the story. i haven't started yet, but i'm going to see if it works.

@Ted:
you have a great point. and you articulated what i couldn't about Robin Hood. there were a few things i didn't like about that movie, but i could never pin point what you have.

and, you have an excellent analysis of Citizen Kane.

the underlying theme is why i figured i'd write the gist of the story in poetic verse. poetry (of the 'once upon a time' kind) almost always has an underlying message/theme/moral it wishes to convey. like you said about films, the stronger the communication of that message, the better the poem.

i figured if you started with several sentences that are all carrying this theme (or moving towards it), why not take each sentence and expand on it dramatically. keeping in mind that each expansion flows naturally from the sentence being expanded. you're main plot and all subplots will fit neatly together without thinking of one without the other.

as i said, i'm going to try my theory and see what happens.


(btw, randal: :thumbsup:)
 
Batutta said:
I don't think you need to know the theme before you start writing, I think that can cripple you, but you better figure it out by the time you're done. My 'epiphany' came when I learned that the theme is stated by the resolution. How the story gets resolved is where your theme lies. The theme of Star Wars isn't just good defeats evil. It's good triumphs over evil because Luke Skywalker believes in something greater than himself. At the climax, he uses the force to blow up the Death Star instead of relying on his computers.
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I neglected to read this prior to my post above, which also referenced Star Wars. My bad. You make an excellent point about how the simple "good vs evil" theme in it is extended and deepened by Luke's character arc (among many other things). As in Casablanca and Citizen Kane, this aspect is handled masterfully. So while SW employs at its most basic level a good vs. evil story, it implements it brilliantly, adding layers of depth and resonance to the underlying theme. Then there's the groundbreaking visuals and sound, incredibly inventive character design, etc. About the only thing Lucas got knocked for (rightly, IMO) is the dialog, which was a bit dry, techy and often wooden. But no matter. It's an all-time classic anyway...
 
Fahad, I read your post few days ago but I was entertaining it around my head.

Cinematography is my current focus of studies but screenwriting is a secondary interest.

Since I have a minor background of writing poems and I do admire the power of them, even inside narrative films (like the poetry that sets the tone for the movie like in 'PU-239'), I'll try this method for thinking outside the box and trying to get to a more core understanding of characters and plot.

My current line of study in screenwriting is Robert Mckee's approach. I really enjoy his analytical view and well, the first time I tried to start writing after having studied his book was hard. I felt that knowing a lot about screenwriting 'techniques' didn't make it easier, instead, it allowed me to get a quality material out of the extremely tiring mind work.

About knowing the theme... Well, if a good movie is a perfect elaboration of thesis, theme is what it is all about. However, defining a theme prematurely and refusing to steer away from it is what held me back for quite some time.

I'll end my post with a Mckee paraphrase as well:

"The story tells its meaning to you, not the other way around..." or something like this.

:)
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
Fahad, I read your post few days ago but I was entertaining it around my head.

Cinematography is my current focus of studies but screenwriting is a secondary interest.

Since I have a minor background of writing poems and I do admire the power of them, even inside narrative films (like the poetry that sets the tone for the movie like in 'PU-239'), I'll try this method for thinking outside the box and trying to get to a more core understanding of characters and plot.

My current line of study in screenwriting is Robert Mckee's approach. I really enjoy his analytical view and well, the first time I tried to start writing after having studied his book was hard. I felt that knowing a lot about screenwriting 'techniques' didn't make it easier, instead, it allowed me to get a quality material out of the extremely tiring mind work.

About knowing the theme... Well, if a good movie is a perfect elaboration of thesis, theme is what it is all about. However, defining a theme prematurely and refusing to steer away from it is what held me back for quite some time.

I'll end my post with a Mckee paraphrase as well:

"The story tells its meaning to you, not the other way around..." or something like this.

:)
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Ok... so it's doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a poem, but any kind of short morality tale. i used a poem just because it sounds and looks pretty.

i've been reading Khalil Gibran these days, and came accross The Madman: His Parables and Poems.

so i guess what i meant is to start with a poem, or a parable, and work your way from that. building from a simple idea (morality lesson or something).

to put things into perspective, look at this short parable from the book i mentioned:

The Wise King
Once there ruled in the distant city of Wirani a king who was both mighty and wise. And he was feared for his might and loved for his wisdom.

Now, in the heart of that city was a well, whose water was cool and crystalline, from which all the inhabitants drank, even the king and his courtiers; for there was no other well.

One night when all were asleep, a witch entered the city, and poured seven drops of strange liquid into the well, and said, “From this hour he who drinks this water shall become mad.”

Next morning all the inhabitants, save the king and his lord chamberlain, drank from the well and became mad, even as the witch had foretold.

And during that day the people in the narrow streets and in the market places did naught but whisper to one another, “The king is mad. Our king and his lord chamberlain have lost their reason. Surely we cannot be ruled by a mad king. We must dethrone him.”

That evening the king ordered a golden goblet to be filled from the well. And when it was brought to him he drank deeply, and gave it to his lord chamberlain to drink.

And there was great rejoicing in that distant city of Wirani, because its king and its lord chamberlain had regained their reason.
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that could make a GREAT movie. it can be anything from western to sci-fi. it could be an epic or a personal story. it can be obvious or psychological.

so what i'm getting at, i guess, is that you start with a thing (in this story 'the wise king') and then you explain what that means through the story.

of course, that's not my work, nor do i claim i can come up with such beauty, but it has given me inspiration to try.

Randall_Oelerich said:
Well there was a little poem made into a movie-- Beowulf, so who knows what you might be on to. :)
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yes... you can start with something simple, like i said, then build it how ever which way you think is necessary, or nice, then you'll have a full blown epic on your hands.




EDIT: i highly recommend reading that book, it's short and sweet. LINK AGAIN
 
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Fahad

I think "The Wise King" would make an excellent SHORT film, but there's not enough story for feature there. It's a classic one-conflict setup, which is exactly what good short film is. If it needed to be a feature a great deal more would have to be invented, taking the basic story vastly beyond it's current boundaries, thus in effect becoming a new work. As a jumping off point for a feature perhaps, or a first act of one, but there's not nearly enough meat on those bones to build a full length film.

IMHO, of course : )
 
Ted Spencer said:
I think "The Wise King" would make an excellent SHORT film, but there's not enough story for feature there. It's a classic one-conflict setup, which is exactly what good short film is. If it needed to be a feature a great deal more would have to be invented, taking the basic story vastly beyond it's current boundaries.
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yes. you're right. this is exactly what i'm talking about.

in this story, we have these players:

King
so here we explain: a leader. a person(s) of great power and authority. mighty yet wise. loved and feared.
What is it to have great power? what is it to have great authority? what is might? what is love/respect?

Lord Chamberlain/courtiers
here we explain: what is it to be No. 2. what is it to be faithful to a mighty/wise leader? who would be faithful to this mighty and wise leader? how would such persons interact with their leader and his subjects?

The People of the city
what is it like to be ruled by a mighty and wise leader? what does it mean to deal with the bureaucracy of such leadership?

Witch
Who is this person? who is the instigator that seeks to change the minds of people? what's the motivation? where did they come from? how did they come to find this mind-changing revelation?


we have these plot devices (? i think)
The Well
what is it that both leader and subject share? what does it mean to be the source of living, intellect, or ... ?

The potion
what could change people? where did it come from? how was it found?

etc. etc. etc.

then the job is to present all of this within the plot that is suitable (in our case) for feature-length movie story-telling.

my theory is, if all's explained and presented, it could very well turn into even a novel. but everything contained therein would lead to the ultimate theme of the tale.
 
Fahad, What is that "Invisible Ink" link in your post? I clicked on it and got a site down message. Is it a book? No such title comes up on Amazon.
 
I am only a beginner as a screenwriter so not sure how much you'll take from this but my approach has been to find or visualize a location, create a few characters with backgrounds and objectives first, and then build the story from there.
My first screenplay was called "Artificial Unintelligence" its a 9 min comedic short film, where i decided to elaborate on 2 characters. 1, a video game nerd (not your prototypical nerd, but just a regular guy who has recently had bad luck with women) and an arrogant friend of his (who seems to have good luck with women but for the wrong reasons). Then i built a story on which they could relate to. Here is the link...

http://vimeo.com/12295637

Hope that made sense?
 
yeah that makes sense.

not a bad short, either.

i'm just starting out with writing, too. at least you've produced something :>

what i've been thinking of, though, is to abstract an idea, and a moral, and build around that (irrelevant of location-but not of setting).
 
I see what you mean, and I'm sure many writers take that approach. My whole thing is that Im an actor and i began as actor first before writing. So when i write, i do so by creating characters first. (backgrounds, motives, objectives, etc) Usually polar opposites (antagonist, protagonist) Then other characters come along as i develop the idea or story. Its probably more time consuming this way, but its how i've found progress. I think creating an idea first obviously can work great too. But for me I find myself trying to hard to think of a good story and I lose focus on the characters.
I feel great characters can make way for great stories? Just my opinion/approach!
 
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