GaryOldman
Active member
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I promise I've been doing research, looking for some real world advice!
- Thread starter GaryOldman
- Start date
The Arri kit you mention was my first kit, though I believe it used to come with two 650s instead of 2 300s. I can't speak for the Moles, though I have always heard they are excellent.
A few thoughts:
This is a good basic kit, which you won't regret, but for similar $$ I might look at a few other options just to muddy up your waters. IMHO, the softbox included with the Arri kit is too small except for a single talking head, so expect to spend some extra $$ for something large. Also, adding a 150 for a hair light is pretty essential, though you can scrim a 300 for that.
The problem with a tungsten kit is they are limited to 3200k unless you gel which is very inefficient, they are hot, and suck a lot of power. For a basic interview, your victims can get uncomfortable pretty quickly. Actors less so since they are more used to it. Also, a softbox set up is slow.
So, how about a mix of flos and tungstens. You can bulb the flos for 3200k and 5600k giving you versatility. Use the flos for interviews, no softbox required, quick, cool, low power. Use a tungsten for a kicker and gel it if you have daylight bulbs in the flo fixtures.
How about this smaller Arri kit as an alternative and add some flos which will keep your budget intact.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/527188-REG/Arri_571960W_Softbank_D1_Three_Light_Kit.html
And some basic inexpensive flos from Cool Lights which market Chinese lights, but is a good company with decent products. They make a lightweight portable version also. Don't forget both style bulbs and egg crates. If you wanted top of the line flos, you could upgrade to Kinoflo.
http://www.coollights.biz/cl455-cool-lights-watt-fluorescent-video-soft-light-p-31.html
And last, add a few C-Stands and sandbags for ballast.
I have never regretted buying the Arri kit, but the flos add a lot to the soft side of your kit.
Grant
A few thoughts:
This is a good basic kit, which you won't regret, but for similar $$ I might look at a few other options just to muddy up your waters. IMHO, the softbox included with the Arri kit is too small except for a single talking head, so expect to spend some extra $$ for something large. Also, adding a 150 for a hair light is pretty essential, though you can scrim a 300 for that.
The problem with a tungsten kit is they are limited to 3200k unless you gel which is very inefficient, they are hot, and suck a lot of power. For a basic interview, your victims can get uncomfortable pretty quickly. Actors less so since they are more used to it. Also, a softbox set up is slow.
So, how about a mix of flos and tungstens. You can bulb the flos for 3200k and 5600k giving you versatility. Use the flos for interviews, no softbox required, quick, cool, low power. Use a tungsten for a kicker and gel it if you have daylight bulbs in the flo fixtures.
How about this smaller Arri kit as an alternative and add some flos which will keep your budget intact.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/527188-REG/Arri_571960W_Softbank_D1_Three_Light_Kit.html
And some basic inexpensive flos from Cool Lights which market Chinese lights, but is a good company with decent products. They make a lightweight portable version also. Don't forget both style bulbs and egg crates. If you wanted top of the line flos, you could upgrade to Kinoflo.
http://www.coollights.biz/cl455-cool-lights-watt-fluorescent-video-soft-light-p-31.html
And last, add a few C-Stands and sandbags for ballast.
I have never regretted buying the Arri kit, but the flos add a lot to the soft side of your kit.
Grant
Patryk_Rebisz
Veteran
Either kit is fine. Always make sure to get cases with wheels. Do not start with flos as they are less versatile. Temperature of the lights shouldn't be a concern for you -- unless you are shooting in some no AC places though even then you will manage.
(Also guys at B&H sell this stuff but rarely - if ever - work with it so their advice should always be taken with a grain of salt)
(Also guys at B&H sell this stuff but rarely - if ever - work with it so their advice should always be taken with a grain of salt)
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62stratplaya
Member
Something you may consider is purchasing used and building your own "kit." I did this and found it to be better than any kit. I could get far better stands (read: pro, and safe), actual juniors, hi-hi rollers, c-stands, baby stands, spreaders. etc... and Tungsten lighting is cheep when purchased second hand, often well under $200/ instrument. Even for a 2k Junior. And honestly, its the grip gear that will become most important in location shooting IME.
I got a lot of my gear here: http://www.pyramid-films.com/
They do not update their site so you have to call.
Though there are others I'm sure.
Also, consider taking some of that saved cash and investing in modifiers: silks, flags, butterflies, scrims... These really help get a pro look.
I purchased most of mine through here: http://www.alangordon.com/s_used.grip.html
In the budget you mentioned you should be able to furnish a small grip and light trailer for the same price as the kit you mentioned. Worth investigation.
Hope that helps
I got a lot of my gear here: http://www.pyramid-films.com/
They do not update their site so you have to call.
Though there are others I'm sure.
Also, consider taking some of that saved cash and investing in modifiers: silks, flags, butterflies, scrims... These really help get a pro look.
I purchased most of mine through here: http://www.alangordon.com/s_used.grip.html
In the budget you mentioned you should be able to furnish a small grip and light trailer for the same price as the kit you mentioned. Worth investigation.
Hope that helps
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Gary doesn't list where in Cali he lives, but I rarely use tungstens for interviews due to the extra heat, & power requirement. Diva 400(s) are my go to lights in these scenarios.
But if weight, & or bulk, is a concern don't get the cases that hold two lights. Instead get them in the individual plastic suitcases. I never fly with Flos due to the fragility of the tubes, so have no need for a Flight Case.
-Bern
Greg Smith
Veteran
Those both look like pretty nice kits, but like 62strataplaya, I have kind of progressed beyond buying pre-packaged kits and prefer my more eclectic collection of mixed lights and accessories. But it takes more time and research to accumulate a good setup piece by piece, so if you're starting from scratch, this may be a good way to begin. They are both highly respected brands, spare parts are readily available, and they should last for decades. I kind of lean toward the Arri kit because I'm trending toward smaller lights these days (and it's substantially cheaper), but I love good old rock-solid made in the USA Mole stuff as well. I'd take Grant's advice seriously as an actual owner of the kit. I'm sure the B&H guy would be much happier to sell you the Mole kit simply because it's more expensive and therefore more profitable for them!
I've also tired of the heat and electrical requirements of tungsten lamps and am trying to go to 100% daylight balanced fluorescent, HMI and LED lighting these days. A lot of my work is in random homes, offices, shops, classrooms and so forth, and when powering thousands of watts of lights, there's often the very real threat of blowing a breaker that nobody on-site knows how to fix. It can waste a lot of time and create bad karma with the client when that happens, and I'd rather not deal with it again. None of my individual lights draws over 250 watts these days, so the risk to the circuits is much less. The talent also appreciates that they're not cooking under the lights, and it's much faster to strike and clear out of the location when you don't have to wait for the lights to cool down. I also like working at lower light levels now than I needed to 20 or 30 years ago. You simply need fewer lumens to make a basic exposure with most modern cameras, and can use your lights more for modeling and quality of light rather than simply getting a usable exposure. This also reduces the quantity of equipment you need to carry.
One thing that really struck me about those kits was the weight -- 83 pounds for the Arri and 91 pounds for the Mole. That's a heck of a lot to pack in a single box and be able to move it around, up and down stairs and such, which would be important in the style of work I do. I had a 60-some pound lighting case that I carried around for a long time and it was a literal pain in the rear end, which at my age, I simply can't deal with anymore. I think it would be much better to break either kit into two or three smaller cases with wheels (and/or get a Multicart or something to move them around).
- Greg
I've also tired of the heat and electrical requirements of tungsten lamps and am trying to go to 100% daylight balanced fluorescent, HMI and LED lighting these days. A lot of my work is in random homes, offices, shops, classrooms and so forth, and when powering thousands of watts of lights, there's often the very real threat of blowing a breaker that nobody on-site knows how to fix. It can waste a lot of time and create bad karma with the client when that happens, and I'd rather not deal with it again. None of my individual lights draws over 250 watts these days, so the risk to the circuits is much less. The talent also appreciates that they're not cooking under the lights, and it's much faster to strike and clear out of the location when you don't have to wait for the lights to cool down. I also like working at lower light levels now than I needed to 20 or 30 years ago. You simply need fewer lumens to make a basic exposure with most modern cameras, and can use your lights more for modeling and quality of light rather than simply getting a usable exposure. This also reduces the quantity of equipment you need to carry.
One thing that really struck me about those kits was the weight -- 83 pounds for the Arri and 91 pounds for the Mole. That's a heck of a lot to pack in a single box and be able to move it around, up and down stairs and such, which would be important in the style of work I do. I had a 60-some pound lighting case that I carried around for a long time and it was a literal pain in the rear end, which at my age, I simply can't deal with anymore. I think it would be much better to break either kit into two or three smaller cases with wheels (and/or get a Multicart or something to move them around).
- Greg
Patryk,
One of the reasons I like flos (FOR versatility) is that if you are doing indoor work with daylight windows, you can change to the 5600k bulbs and not have to cover or gel the windows. Using 3200k bulbs, you can mix and match with tungsten. Yes the light is always soft, but I usually have at least one soft light in most situations. The power and heat issues are additional advantages.
Grant
Edit: I am not saying to exclude tungsten as they are a mainstay. I am suggesting that the OP has a decent budget (for a change) and that a mix can serve him well. If the OP needed more Watts, he could always add a couple of 1000w Arris or purchase a kit with larger lights.
One of the reasons I like flos (FOR versatility) is that if you are doing indoor work with daylight windows, you can change to the 5600k bulbs and not have to cover or gel the windows. Using 3200k bulbs, you can mix and match with tungsten. Yes the light is always soft, but I usually have at least one soft light in most situations. The power and heat issues are additional advantages.
Grant
Edit: I am not saying to exclude tungsten as they are a mainstay. I am suggesting that the OP has a decent budget (for a change) and that a mix can serve him well. If the OP needed more Watts, he could always add a couple of 1000w Arris or purchase a kit with larger lights.
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Gary,
LED lighting is going to change everything, just not for a while. It has improved tremendously in the past year or two. While I have dipped my toe in the LED market with a Cool Lights 600, I think the products need to mature a little more for prime time. For some situations, LED lighting is great have. Think ultra portable, battery powered if need be, and fairly close to daylight with a little more punch than flos. Read that again, the color is close to daylight, but not quite. So if you really need perfect color, you might want to pass. They are getting better, and maybe the real high end products from Arri might be pretty good. Some products are now offering a spectrum balancing scheme by using different LEDs and letting the user dial in the color.
Grant
LED lighting is going to change everything, just not for a while. It has improved tremendously in the past year or two. While I have dipped my toe in the LED market with a Cool Lights 600, I think the products need to mature a little more for prime time. For some situations, LED lighting is great have. Think ultra portable, battery powered if need be, and fairly close to daylight with a little more punch than flos. Read that again, the color is close to daylight, but not quite. So if you really need perfect color, you might want to pass. They are getting better, and maybe the real high end products from Arri might be pretty good. Some products are now offering a spectrum balancing scheme by using different LEDs and letting the user dial in the color.
Grant
Greg Smith
Veteran
I have a few LED lights -- a set of three Ikan 500's, and a little on-camera light. Like Grant said, they're already useful in a lot of ways but will probably reach their full potential in a few more years. The Ikans are very lightweight and easy to set up, can run on batteries if you want, and produce a very decent quality of light -- just not a whole lot of it. You can't use them to light a whole room, but they're OK for a close interview setup or where just a little fill is required in a larger scene. They're semi-soft lights, kind of like most fluorescent fixtures. You'll never get the hard shadows, long throw and directional quality of a fresnel or ellipsoidal spot, but neither are they as soft as a real softbox that works through reflection from a matte surface. They are good for a lot of things nonetheless, and I almost always use one or two of them in every setup I do, but they're not the right answer to every lighting problem just yet.
I admit I'm fascinated by gear and technology in general, and it still just blows me away that these things produce a photographically useful quantity of light, yet you can put your hand directly on the LEDs while they're operating and feel only a very slight warmth. Having used tungsten bulbs over the years to burn my fingers more times than I can count, slow-roast hundreds of subjects on my sets, and start at least two minor fires I can recall, absolutely not having to worry about heat, power consumption and the life of the bulbs is a very liberating sensation.
The Arri LED fresnel, the Photon Beard LEP lights, and the Lowel LED panels shown at NAB this year all lead me to believe there are better things right around the corner in high efficiency lighting, but the prices need to (and will) fall a little, and the versatility and light quality improve some, before they will become totally mainstream.
- Greg
I admit I'm fascinated by gear and technology in general, and it still just blows me away that these things produce a photographically useful quantity of light, yet you can put your hand directly on the LEDs while they're operating and feel only a very slight warmth. Having used tungsten bulbs over the years to burn my fingers more times than I can count, slow-roast hundreds of subjects on my sets, and start at least two minor fires I can recall, absolutely not having to worry about heat, power consumption and the life of the bulbs is a very liberating sensation.
The Arri LED fresnel, the Photon Beard LEP lights, and the Lowel LED panels shown at NAB this year all lead me to believe there are better things right around the corner in high efficiency lighting, but the prices need to (and will) fall a little, and the versatility and light quality improve some, before they will become totally mainstream.
- Greg