I need advice about pursuing film school...

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Filmkid2003

Well-known member
Hi everyone. Here's my situation. I'm in my late thirties, single, with no kids. Due to financial difficulties, I had to make a hard decision and moved from Los Angeles to southern Delaware and I am currently living with my father. Before I moved from Los Angeles, I wrote, directed, and produced a full-length indie feature on a $12,000 budget. The main reason I shot the film was to learn the entire process of filmmaking in every facet of the craft. I was the screenwriter, director, producer, casting agent, cinematographer, gaffer, sound recorder, set dresser, costume designer, editor, sound designer, and film score composer. Since I wasn't able to pay anyone (including myself), I was forced to cast actors that were relatively new to the craft and inexperienced. One of my actors was a trained theater actor though. It took me two years to shoot the film since I was working full-time to pay rent and bills and was forced to shoot only one day a week. I also made some mistakes and had to shoot a third of the film all over again (I didn't learn about the 180 degree rule until we were halfway done shooting). Plus, weather played a part in delaying our production time due to the locations I chose to shoot at (50% of the film takes place at the beach). Luckily, my two leading actors stayed with me for the two full years of shooting because they believed in me as a filmmaker and they believed in the script. I shot the film on a Panasonic GH13 and a Panasonic GH2.

Anyway, I am 80% done with the post production of the film. I need to edit just one more scene, finish editing the sound and finish recording the score. I also need to have the film color corrected. At this point, I have decided that I need more training and that film school is the only way I can get the training that I need.

By the way, just to give you an idea of what I have done, here is the first few minutes of the film: https://vimeo.com/87812874 (The first two songs are from Road to Perdition and Tron Legacy which I am only using as a "temp" score. The last song is my own.)

And here is a dream sequence in the movie: https://vimeo.com/102570236 (Just to set up the scene for you... the main character has the T.V. on and is staring up at a poster on the ceiling above his bed as he drifts off to sleep. The music is from Tron Legacy.)

Here is my problem. I am at a crossroad in my life where I need to make a decision as to whether I should continue to pursue my "dream" of being a professional filmmaker who is able to make a decent living in the film business or whether I should scrap the "dream" and go to school and get a degree in a field that is projected to grow significantly by the year 2020 such as web development. I designed my first website on my own this past year using a custom Wordpress theme to see if I would even like web design/development: www.truckdrivingschoolsinfo.com

Because I was only able to find part-time work last year and therefore, am considered "low income", this year I am eligible to receive the full $5,700 of the Pell Grant. I have already been accepted to the local community college and would be able to study either web development or communications and receive an Associate's degree without having to pay for tuition. On the other hand, I can take the online film school program offered by Santa Fe University of Art & Design and receive a certificate in Writing/Directing. It is an 18 month course. Because of my Pell Grant status, I would only have to pay $700 of tuition as well as book expenses. I already have all the filmmaking equipment I would need for the online film program from the film I shot in Cali. This month my truck will finally be paid off and I will have no debt whatsoever so, I will be able to focus on school full-time and will only have to work one or two days a week.

I know that there are many varied opinions regarding film schools and whether anyone should attend one, and I know that what I have shot already I can put on my director's reel. I just feel that I need more training and, since I am smack dab in the middle of southern Delaware, there aren't exactly any film sets around here that I can gain experience on. Would I learn anymore from film school than I already have shooting an indie feature on my own?

So, I am on this forum to humbly ask for advice from people who are professionals in the film business, whether it be editing, directing, producing, etc. What would your advice be to someone who has a passion and drive for filmmaking but who isn't in his 20's anymore and isn't living in Los Angeles, New York, or Atlanta. Obviously, I don't want to live with my father longer than I have to. Based on what I have shown you so far, do you think I should do the online film school and get more training and add to my director's reel with some student films, or am I just wasting my time and therefore, should choose the "safe" route with an Associate's degree and a web development job waiting for me after I finish school? I don't want to wake up five years from now and feel like I am stuck in a job that I neither enjoy or gain any fulfillment from because I gave up on my dream.
 
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What training do you think you'll gain from film school that can't be found elsewhere?

That's not a hypothetical. Just wondering what your goals are.
 
I would get a day job, like web development, and do filmmaking on the side. I don't know which one you should go to school for. Do whatever you need to do to be able to learn both over the next, say, two years.

Web development is a growing industry. Unlike moviemaking, there are more jobs than candidates. Like moviemaking, though, there is a lot to learn. It may take a lifetime to master.
 
I think a good question to ask yourself is..."does the job of your dreams require a certificate of authenticity to acquire...or does pure ability pave the way?" You can be a master of your craft either way. One path is nearly free...the other is very costly...both can have fantastic results. It all depends on how you pull it off.

I personally think the most important thing is something you can not find in a classroom...or pay an institution for... Its unrelentless drive, determination, unwillingness to fail, and most definitely...networking. Meet and work with as many people as you can and follow your gut...and don't burn bridges.
 
Tough decision. In my experience only those fllmmakers prevail who don't give up making films. When you attend film school you have access to guidance and knowledge that so many people gathered over more than 100 years of filmmaking. It would take more than a lifetime to experience all yourself, make all the mistakes yourself, like you experienced with the 180 degree rule. And in filmschool you will not have to do everything on your own, as you share the jobs with your comrades. This is essential in filmmaking. The tasks are just too big to do everything on your own. Filmschool is also about networking. All the fellow students will spread in the industry in the future.

But it is never sure you will be making a living of filmmaking. So you might consider having a paying job at the side to sustain a living.

Now the question is: Do you want to lead a "secure" life with a well paying job, or are you ready to never give up and fight?

PS: Nice Images in your film. But there is still a way to go in the edit I think.
 
The biggest benefit of a film school, as I see it, is that you have access to a lot of the equipment you'll ever need and get to use it. Then it will make it easier to know/understand what is needed for different shoots and you don't have to learn on set when renting it.

As someone who's almost entirely self-thought myself that is what I miss. I've read about all the things and know the theory of why to use certain gear in certain situations. But until you've actually done it/used it, you don't really know it.

So the lure of a film school is mostly the hands on experience, combined with someone explaining their use.

An online course feels a bit of a waste of time and money to me. Might as well watch YouTube tutorials ;)

if you're inclined to study, I'd say go for something else and shoot on the side.
 
Well this is a filmmaking forum, and I suppose you will get many replys saying… follow your dreams and the like. But the reality is the likelihood of you becoming a successful movie director is right up there with becoming a professional football player or astronaut. The moviemaking industry is on the decline. Think about it, there are thousands of kids graduating film school only to find that there are no jobs available. Sorry but working for free on no budget indie films does not equal earning a living. Do yourself a favor and learn a trade or earn a degree in a field where you can support yourself and any family you might hope to have. Once you are earning a good salary you can always make films and enjoy yourself.

All the Best!

Dave
 
Unfortunately I believe that the entire film-school paradigm is a fossil today, and at worst a racket. When I graduated from film school (more than 20 years ago) the landscape was a little different, but today I don't think I am too far off in estimating that every degree granting institution in the country has a film program and as Mr. Jones mentioned they are turning out thousands of graduates every semester. I once jokingly wrote in a thread here that someone's teenage child saying that they wanted to be a filmmaker is the 21st century equivalent of the little kid wanting to run away and join the circus. So where do all these film-school graduates go? Well. . .the ones who payed for the really prestigious under-grad degrees and graduate degrees (and can talk the talk) get teaching jobs in Film programs.

I love the work (about 80% of the time) but I could never conscionably recommend it to anyone as a career path.
 
I don't think age should play a role in your decision making process...unless you're like 80 and you want a career in extreme sports, then maybe there's some physical limitation there. But, for this instance I don't think it's applicable.

Here's what I'm doing: I'm 22 and married. I'm a semester away from graduating with a B.S. in computer engineering. I will likely get a job in the field (due to experience in my past and my school). I will work and make whatever kind of videos I want on the side as a hobby (maybe get into some wedding videography or local business promos, etc.). After my wife and I have determined that we have sufficient savings, I will leave my place of employment for several months to see if I can sustain our lifestyle with strictly videography based on the connections that I've made up to that point. I don't really care if I'm making feature-length movies, capturing the love of newly weds, or showing the world the next Voodoo Doughnuts, I love all of it.

You have to take care of yourself first, though.
 
Thanks for all the replies, guys. You all gave good thought provoking advice. Before I make my completely final decision, I am going to wait for the school counselor at the community college to get back to me on whether or not the math and english classes I took at The Art Institute of Philadelphia years ago will allow me to skip the Math/English placement test. As far as the online film school goes, they also have a Producing/Editing certificate that maybe I should pursue as opposed to the Writer/Director certificate if I choose the online film school route. The only thing is, I just can't see myself being content with a job where I sit behind a computer all day writing HTML code and Javascript. I just don't think I am wired that way. I could see myself sitting behind a computer all day editing film or even marketing videos for a corporation, if I have the proper schooling for that. The community college also has an Associate's degree program in communications. Does anyone feel that I should pursue that career field instead?

The one concern I have about doing the online film school is being able to find actors/crew to help me make my student films. This is lower Delaware, not NYC, LA, or Atlanta where actors who are willing to work just for the experience are a dime a dozen. I think we have one local theater here in town and that is it. We do have the Rehoboth Beach Film society that holds a film festival every autumn though. Maybe they would be able to connect me with some actors willing to help out.

By the way, Dodohu, thank you for the complement and the constructive criticism on my two film clips. What is it about the editing that you feel I need to change? Were you talking about the dream sequence in the desert clip, the first 4 minutes of the film clip, or both?

While I am on the subject, does anyone else have any constructive criticism or likes/dislikes they can give me about the two clips that I linked to in my original post? I am at the point where I have had to step away from the project and need some input from other filmmakers, especially anyone who has or is directing/filmmaking professionally. Thanks.

Clip 1: https://vimeo.com/87812874

Clip 2: https://vimeo.com/102570236
 
You have maybe some good instincts, from what I see in your clips. There's maybe just few spots where it's too slow or the cut is rough. Watch it with the sound off, after getting away from it for a few days.

As for your career path, suppose someone has agreed to pay for your daily needs but not anything else. So you don't need to worry for the moment about food, clothing, etc. Now with that out of the way, what are your next steps in your film career? It sounds like first you want, and somewhat need, to study, whether that's a school, library books, Youtube videos, or shooting. Most people will weigh heavily on the side of anything but school. Often for that same amount of time and money, you will gain more knowledge and friends by just shooting another movie. But maybe you want a semester or two to jump-start or round out your brain. That's fine. Go for it! It might be fun.

But after a couple semesters of school, reading books, and studying online how-to videos, then what? Even if you got a Ph.D. in filmmaking from NYU, nobody and I mean nobody is going to hire you. So go to school only as long as you feel uncomfortable starting your next project.
 
You're single, have minimal responsibilities, little cost for the school, so if not now, when? After you have a full time job? After you're married and have kids?
As far as a job, or even a career, there's more to film and video than being an A-list director in Hollywood. You have to find a spot in the wide spectrum of moving images that appeals to you and pays the bills. That could be anything from working post, being a local news cameraman, wedding shooter, to A-list director. Or you could get a regular job and shoot some stuff on the side when you have time, like once a month for several years as you've already discovered.
Film school isn't a golden ticket to stardom. It is a good opportunity to learn not just the how, but the why and it's a good way to network with other like minded people since for the most part film is a collaborative process.
I can't make the decision for you, but just look at what your goals are and be realistic about what it's going to take to get there. Is it more important to have a nice truck? Then get a job. Is it more important to put your vision to the screen? Then start making that movie.
 
Thanks guys. Combatentropy, thanks for your constructive criticism. I believe part of the reason why I need a formal education in filmmaking is so I have a better grasp at editing. I know there needs to be a certain rhythm and flow to the final cut but, I have only learned to edit through experience and watching great movies and not from any formal teaching. I actually begin to get physically ill while editing my film, partly because I am such a perfectionist, and partly because I'm unsure of whether I am cutting the footage at the right spot and then I begin to worry that people will see the film and think I have no clue what I am doing. I actually had to stop editing altogether because I was getting a stomach ulcer. I guess it was physiological stress.

Andrius, you are right about me not having any real responsibilities at this point in my life. I was focused and consumed with filmmaking when I moved out to Los Angeles in my twenties but, after a few years, I became angry and bitter, feeling that my first "no budget" feature length indie film was a failure, and unfortunately I lost focus and began chasing girls and wasted five years of my life. Then, I finally turned my back on that lifestyle and became focused again and it was like a tidal wave of creativity and inspiration just washed over me and this story and screenplay was so easy to write. Then, everything just fell in place as I cast the actors, scouted locations, bought the equipment, and learned how to direct and shoot a movie by experience. This time around I was able to shoot with prime lenses, lights, professional sound equipment, a motorized dolly, etc. I didn't already have a shooting budget saved up but, when I needed the money, it always appeared somehow. To tell you the truth, it was like "The Alchemist" in a way. It was like God moved heaven and earth to help us make this film. I don't believe in coincidence when too many things go right like they did. Anyway, all I want to do is finish the film because I owe my cast and crew a finished film but, I feel like I need to get more training, especially when it comes to editing and color correction, before I go any further. I just hope I am not wasting my time, spinning my wheels, so to speak. I believe in myself and my abilities but, that doesn't mean guaranteed success, even if you work hard and stay persistent... or maybe it does. Who knows?
 
Filmkid2003 said:
Anyway, all I want to do is finish the film because I owe my cast and crew a finished film but, I feel like I need to get more training, especially when it comes to editing and color correction, before I go any further.
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Do you know how to design, engineer, and manufacture a camera? As in every step of the process from developing a sensor to the electronics to the plastics and metals and programming the software? No? Didn't think so. But that didn't stop you from using one. It's nice to know something about the process and what goes into it, but you don't need to know everything about every part to be able to work with it. It's the same for the movie. You don't have to be the one editing it. If that's the part you're having trouble with, then you should find someone who doesn't have trouble with it and let them do it. Ever notice how the credits to features aren't just a list of the actors and then one guy? Get a specialist to do the parts that you're not good at or don't know enough about to do right. Not only that, but a good experienced editor can make magic happen where you least expect it. I've seen total crap come in and be turned into gold with a good edit.
 
Hey, Andrius, I completely agree with you. The only problem is finding a really good editor, like the kind you are talking about, who will edit a feature length film for very little pay since I am pretty much broke and only working part-time at the moment. That's why I am doing the editing, sound editing, and film score composing myself. I know that there are much more gifted film score composers and editors who would do a better job but, finding good ones who will work for very little pay seems like it would be a real task. Maybe I'm wrong about this?
 
Filmkid2003 said:
I actually begin to get physically ill while editing my film, partly because I am such a perfectionist, and partly because I'm unsure of whether I am cutting the footage at the right spot and then I begin to worry that people will see the film and think I have no clue what I am doing. I actually had to stop editing altogether because I was getting a stomach ulcer.
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If editing is making you physically ill, then it sounds like any other editor will do. Within reason of course.

Filmkid2003 said:
The only problem is finding a really good editor, like the kind you are talking about, who will edit a feature length film for very little pay since I am pretty much broke and only working part-time at the moment.
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You need to find someone you can collaborate with, that wants to edit, but might not have a lot of opportunity to edit a full film. Editors who work for TV news, advertising, music videos, etc, might be talented but just not in a position to get a shot at editing a feature length film because a lot of the producers won't give a feature to an editor who hasn't done one before. These guys might not drop everything to do it, but they might take it on as a fun side project for lower pay if they think something good can come of it for their careers.
 
I am all for taking the risky path and pursuing your dreams. There's a great interview out there somewhere on the web where Tarantino said he never allowed himself to have a fall back because he knew he would fall back. I think there's a lot of truth in this statement because it's so easy to get comfortable with just getting by, and after all you can always truly believe you will follow your dreams one day. That's the problem with dreams, it's a lot like buying a lottery ticket. Just thinking about your dreams can make them feel so close, as if merely thinking is somehow productive. This is a trap and the reason that 95% of people that claim to want to be filmmakers never actually give it a good try.

That being said, I think an online film school is a waste of time. At that point you are just talking about film criticism and theory, which is mostly useless in the grand scheme of things. The only real advantage of film school is the access to crew, equipment, and connections. If you attend one of the top film schools, by the end of it you would have a short film shot on the best cameras in the world, crewed by other passionate students, and usually seen by top industry professionals. If you're not getting that from a film school, then I say save your money. There's nothing an online class can teach you that you can't read in a book on your own time.

The real question here then becomes, are you willing to go into massive debt? Because the only film schools that are worth their time are usually going to cost upwards of $100,000. If you are willing to take on that kind of debt, then look into USC, UCLA, AFI, Loyola Marymount, Chapman, UT-Austin, NC School of the Arts, NYU, Columbia, and FSU. Of all those I believe FSU is the cheapest coming in at around $60,000 for a two year study.

If you are unwilling to go into debt, then I suggest buying a copy of Rebel With a Cause, read it 20 times, and keep making movies.
 
Filmkid2003 said:
I actually begin to get physically ill while editing my film, partly because I am such a perfectionist, and partly because I'm unsure of whether I am cutting the footage at the right spot and then I begin to worry that people will see the film and think I have no clue what I am doing. I actually had to stop editing altogether because I was getting a stomach ulcer. I guess it was physiological stress.
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I guess you need to take a break ;)

You might also be suffering from alonism --- what happens to us all when we spend too much time alone: we all go crazy. Part of the reason you subconsciously want to go to school may be to be around other people, besides your father. Nothing wrong with that.

I have already been accepted to the local community college and would be able to study either web development or communications and receive an Associate's degree without having to pay for tuition
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Hot to trot! I would do that, if nothing else for company.

I still think, along with most of us, that you can get your schoolin' in film from something other than film school. Here, start by watching:

 
jghenderson said:
That being said, I think an online film school is a waste of time. At that point you are just talking about film criticism and theory, which is mostly useless in the grand scheme of things. The only real advantage of film school is the access to crew, equipment, and connections...
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Oh wait, we're talking about an online program? Didn't catch that earlier.
I agree, film school should be all about gear, crew, and contacts. The only benefit I could see with an online film program over just clicking all the film related stuff already available is that it would be organized. I don't know if that's worth the money though.
 
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