I give up - need help selecting mic

D

djkoz

Well-known member
I've spent more than 2 hours reading posts on this site trying to get enough information to make an intelligent decision regarding the type of mic I should buy. I am totally confused, shotgun vs cardoid, brand A vs brand B, etc.

If you are very qualified when it comes to audio I need specific recommendation with respect to which mic to get, and a list of accessories I should consider if they do not come with the mic.

My specifications:

1. The mic needs to mount on a DVX100A
2. At the moment I will be shooting interviews and documentaries both indoor and outdoor.
3. I need to be able to get good audio from the interviewee while at the same time blocking out most, if not all of the ambient sound.
4. My price range is under $300, the further under $300 the better.
5. At some point in time I might want to mount the mike on a boom and use it to record dialog for a short movie.

I hope that answers the most pertinent questions relating to this decision.

Thank you very much in advance for your advice. It is greatly appreciated.

Dan K
 
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but getting a specific mic will not solve your problem. Learning about production audio will help you improve your audio (and help you to decide which mic(s) to purchase and how to use them appropriately).

Everyone is confused in the first two hours. If it was that easy, anyone could produce great sound.

Save yourself time and money. Take about two weeks. Read Yankee's sticky at the top of this section. Read all the threads referenced. Go back and read it again. By then you will realize:

#1 is almost always a bad idea,
#2 is hard to do optimally with just one microphone,
#3 is probably impossible without having someone to boom the person, and
if you buy a mic for less than $300 (#4) you're wasting money because if you're at all serious you'll be upgrading to real mics that cost >$500 very soon.
 
Doing a couple hours of research on audio, you should have been able to find the basics. First, there is no perfect microphone for every situation.

Shotgun mics are for outside and hyper-cardioids are for inside.

I think you might need to reconsider your budget a bit. I suppose you could buy the cheapest hyper cardioid from b&h or EVS, but in the long run, it just isn't worth it. You'd be better off scraping together a little more cash.

Now, MattinSTL's (one of DVXUser's sound guru's) past recommendations for hypercardioid mics have been the Oktava mics (with interchangeable capsules). I may be incorrect, but I believe the mic with a couple of different capsules is just over 300$, so you could get that... but eventually you're going to have to break down and get a shotgun mic.

You COULD buy the shotgun microphone first and get the hyper second, but personally, I would rather have the ability to record indoor efficiently and fight against the ambience of outdoors than have a decent outdoor mic and have weird-sounding indoor stuff.

Maybe my intuition is wrong and you should get the shotgun first, we'll see what others have to say about the issue.
 
I think this forum is great to get most knowledge about sound production. I spent huge amount of time to read the post.

The tip I will give is quite simple. Sort the post in views number. And read top 50 in the list, this will guarantee that you will get everyone is interested to read.:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG)

I think that is the quickest way to read a forum and get basic knowledge.

Regards
Leigh
 
dude, for under $300 dollars you wont get anything that will get "good audio from the interviewee while at the same time blocking out most, if not all of the ambient sound."

and if you're mounting that mic on cam, even a 15billion dollar mic couldnt help if the cam is too far away. plain and simple science.

find and read top 5 shotguns, and pick one. anyone.
 
Well, I kind of disagree with what has been posted here. I think good audio CAN be had for that price.

Check out the Audio Technica AT835b.

Yes it's a shotgun, yes it's LONG, but it will give you good audio, and for about $300 you can have it, a Reinhardt windsock, and an AT8415 (or similar) shockmount. That's a pretty darn good set-up.

A link to the Danish Reinhardt windsock/windshield company:
http://www.reinhardt-film.com/new/ebay.html

Here's a link to another low cost shotgun review, incl. AT835b:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/review_shotgun_mics.html
 
Last edited:
at 835 is one of the worstest i heard in my life , maybe the 815 sucks more
the me66 sounds as schoeps near it , as much as i dont like the rode you better check that one or keep an eye on eBay to catch k3u with me80 ( lovely mic )
 
I read this thread as soon as it was posted last night, typed up a very nasty response and deleted it before I posted it, figuring that the regulars would have more fun here than myself

(Side Note: Is it just me, or are 'What mic should I buy' threads to audio fanatics the same as 'What is that clunk sound' threads to the rest of this board?)

It has been said before, but I am going to repeat it... You cannot get good sound by just buying a microphone.

Read that statement again.

Don't want to read it again, ok, I'll type it again.

You cannot get good sound from a microphone.

Good sound is provided via the technique of the user. I promise you that Ty or Oleg will be able to get far better results from an AT55 than I can get from my 416 (that might be an extreme example, but...). The reason for this is they understand the relation of the microphone and it's distinct characteristics (tonal color, pick up pattern, high and low points) and the best way to utilize those aspects to achieve optimal results.

For audio purchases remember I have come up with two rules that I think most people should keep in mind (this is for individuals who are using their camera to record and are not purchasing a mixer): 1/2 your budget should go to the microphone whereas 1/2 your budget should go to windprotection, suspension, and cables.

If you have $300 and you spend $300 on a microphone then you have a $300 paperweight that is unsuable. A microphone is like the engine in a car, it needs the body, the wheels, something to steer with, a seat, and a driver to perform.

I am going to refrain from making any specific microphone recommendations or repeating the hyper cardiod vs shotgun comments (hence the sticky at the top of this thread).

Rather than rehash all that stuff (if you want it, SEARCH) I am going to actually try to help you. In order to get started with audio for interiors and exteriors here is a nonspecific list of tools you will need to purchase:
1. Headphones (you need to monitor what you are recording)
2. Short Cable (for when you want to mount a microphone on the camera)
3. Long cable (for when you want to have your microphone on a boompole)
4. Hyper Cardiod Microphone (for recording sound indoors)
5. Shotgun Microphone (for recording sound outdoors)
6. Wind protection for hyper cardiod microphone (in order to make it usable)
7. Wind protection for Shotgun Microphone (to make the mic usable)
8. Shockmount (depending on which microphones you buy you might be able to get away with one shockmount, maybe not though)
9. Boompole (to be able to get the mic as close as possible to the speaker. How close do you need to be? .00001" out of frame. Why is this important? A professional or experienced operator will FIGHT for every milimeter of closeness to the speaker. That is how important this is).
10. Time (to read through all the posts here in the audio section. Here is a great example. Look at the infamous 'Everything I know about mics' thread. There were two replies, nothing for about a year, and then some moron went through, while he was searching this forum, and reposted to that old thread and it has become one of the defacto resources on the net for learning about audio).

I've written enough... Do what you want with it.

-Jeremy
 
TheYankee said:
I read this thread as soon as it was posted last night, typed up a very nasty response and deleted it before I posted it, figuring that the regulars would have more fun here than myself

(Side Note: Is it just me, or are 'What mic should I buy' threads to audio fanatics the same as 'What is that clunk sound' threads to the rest of this board?)

It has been said before, but I am going to repeat it... You cannot get good sound by just buying a microphone.

Read that statement again.

Don't want to read it again, ok, I'll type it again.

You cannot get good sound from a microphone.

Good sound is provided via the technique of the user. I promise you that Ty or Oleg will be able to get far better results from an AT55 than I can get from my 416 (that might be an extreme example, but...). The reason for this is they understand the relation of the microphone and it's distinct characteristics (tonal color, pick up pattern, high and low points) and the best way to utilize those aspects to achieve optimal results.

For audio purchases remember I have come up with two rules that I think most people should keep in mind (this is for individuals who are using their camera to record and are not purchasing a mixer): 1/2 your budget should go to the microphone whereas 1/2 your budget should go to windprotection, suspension, and cables.

If you have $300 and you spend $300 on a microphone then you have a $300 paperweight that is unsuable. A microphone is like the engine in a car, it needs the body, the wheels, something to steer with, a seat, and a driver to perform.

I am going to refrain from making any specific microphone recommendations or repeating the hyper cardiod vs shotgun comments (hence the sticky at the top of this thread).

Rather than rehash all that stuff (if you want it, SEARCH) I am going to actually try to help you. In order to get started with audio for interiors and exteriors here is a nonspecific list of tools you will need to purchase:
1. Headphones (you need to monitor what you are recording)
2. Short Cable (for when you want to mount a microphone on the camera)
3. Long cable (for when you want to have your microphone on a boompole)
4. Hyper Cardiod Microphone (for recording sound indoors)
5. Shotgun Microphone (for recording sound outdoors)
6. Wind protection for hyper cardiod microphone (in order to make it usable)
7. Wind protection for Shotgun Microphone (to make the mic usable)
8. Shockmount (depending on which microphones you buy you might be able to get away with one shockmount, maybe not though)
9. Boompole (to be able to get the mic as close as possible to the speaker. How close do you need to be? .00001" out of frame. Why is this important? A professional or experienced operator will FIGHT for every milimeter of closeness to the speaker. That is how important this is).
10. Time (to read through all the posts here in the audio section. Here is a great example. Look at the infamous 'Everything I know about mics' thread. There were two replies, nothing for about a year, and then some moron went through, while he was searching this forum, and reposted to that old thread and it has become one of the defacto resources on the net for learning about audio).

I've written enough... Do what you want with it.

-Jeremy
Click to expand...

Well said. As far as the microphone request being similar to the clunk, I can see both sides of that issue. Everyone wants the best of the best, and pretty much every situation is unique... so I think that's why all of those kinds of posts get asked on the board. At the same time, it's frusterating having to explain to every single person that what they really need is a sonic arsenal and having just one microphone, or two even, isn't enough.
 
DJ, I am not completely disagreeing with you... I am just simply going to say: That is what the search function is for.

Audio questions and situations are not unique, and personally, I don't care what someone's budget is. We have had tons of discussions regarding the minimum audio set up package with prices, and those threads are not magically hidden, they are out there for members and guests to find. We have such an extensive knowledgebase of microphones, cables, mixers, HD recorders, the benefit of an attenuation cable, DIY blimps, the need for wind protection, boom technique, the difference between p48 and t12, where to buy, how to buy, negotiation techniques, and a thorough discussion of future technology and the benefit it can offer to audio enthusiasts. All the information is here for the taking.

Now it might sound as if any question asked is a stupid question if we already have this discussion, and I don't see it that way. I think that a general question like "What mic should I buy" is a stupid question. A good question is, "I am new to audio, what are the differences between a Ktek boompole with an internal cable and the Gitzo pole that is carbon fiber". Hell, I could even accept a question like, "I am looking at the AT815b, what are your opinions regarding this microphone?"

Now, I've posted things like, best and cheapest interior microphone, so I'm not talking out of both sides of my mouth here, but I think that even an all inclusive general question like, "What is the best hyper cardiod microphone" is a legit question.

I know it will never change. In that little thread thing I posted that got stickied I said that within a week of me posting that thread we will have someone asking what mic to buy. Since that thread has gone up we have had that question more than a dozen times...

There just comes a point where you want to scream. I really believe that everything you could ever want to know about mics is burried in the archives, and some of the best threads are linked in the sticky at the top of the thread. That is just my opinion though.

Jeremy
 
lol Bad day at the office?

I suppose you're right, though.

As someone who is just getting into sound engineering, I can sympathize with the people who ask these questions. I'm personally in the market for a hypercardioid mic and I spent the better part of my weekend reading through opinion posts about what mic has the highest clarity, and what pickup patterns a certain mic has and why they're better than another mic. It seems like a lot of this boils down to personal taste, when dealing specifically with the brands and products themselves, and that can be quite frusterating for the reader looking for a clear and concise answer (which I've learned that none of those exist in the sound world.) lol

But I do understand where you're coming from. Repeating yourself over and over again to people who don't know enough about sound can get very frusterating. I believe you, Oleg, Ty and Matt are some of our best sound guys, so your opinions are respected greatly... so that's where I am going to stop my post.

PS Cheer up and soak up some sun. lol
 
All good points in these last posts; can't argue with the content.

But I do think we are forgetting something: these questions simply aren't that unreasonable for someone starting out.

What camera should I buy?
What microphone should I buy?
What lights work well?
etcetera, etcetera...

It can all be overwhelming in the beginning. The fact that these questions are asked on these forums is a GOOD thing, as it shows that the person is wanting to get better and improve.

If a simple [in a pro's mind] question comes up, we are fast to give the CORRECT answer given the one's pro understanding of things. OF COURSE an inexperienced person needs to learn all basic things that will improve the usage. But one needs equipment to learn with!

In this particular case djkoz want to know what mic is a good choice. Surely $300 is sufficient to get a mic and its support that can give FAR BETTER results than the on-cam mics. And then, with this new acquired external mic, many of the necessary techniques of sound gathering can be learned. Soon, a boom pole can be added, then Matt's cables, then another mic, etc. etc.

I don't think these are questions that can't be answered directly.
 
I am always under the assumption, and we know what happens when people assume, that people are using the DVX or HVX when asking audio questions. In my opinion if you are going to spend $3500 on a camera and designate $300 to sound then your priorities are backwards.

I am a firm believer that sound is 70% of the film experience. By that rationale if you spend $3500 on a camera you should expect to spend at least that + 20% on sound.

I really believe that if you are starting out with a desire for sound in exteriors as well as interiors and have under $500 to invest (for $500 you can deck out an Oktava properly, get boom, and cable) then the only solution is a Rode Videomic.

Even the Rode NTG or the AT897 at $250-$300 are not acceptable for $300 because you are missing shockmount, wind protection, and cables.

I believe that a microphone without wind protection is not a microphone that you want to use.

Still, just my $.02.

-Jeremy
 
Anyone who don't want to spend money on windscreen, please take some time to read this thread and download my video.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=49353

The cost is 0 dollar and the result for protection against the wind in normal situation is reasonable acceptable. By using only silk, it can beat any foam based microphone protection for the sound quality.

Regards
Leigh

TheYankee said:
because you are missing shockmount, wind protection, and cables.

I believe that a microphone without wind protection is not a microphone that you want to use.

Still, just my $.02.

-Jeremy
Click to expand...
 
Although having the question "What mic should I buy?" is a valid question, I gotta tell ya that I spent weeks reading posts on various boards when I started before I asked any questions.

The mods have made answering the basics easy by stickying (my word of the day) Jeremy's post at the top of this section. I can understand that someone might miss the sticky, but once pointed to it I would think that a rational person would exert some due diligence and actually read the threads pointed to. To DJkoz's credit he hasn't come back here saying "Just tell me which mic is the best" and I imagine he's sitting somewhere reading the indicated threads before reposting.

And even if you don't think audio is 70% of the experience (I'm reminded of someone's sig-TV without picture is radio, TV without sound is "We're having technical difficulties"), you've got to admit that your mics and mixers will be with you long after you've moved on to another camera/format (I know mine will). This fact alone dictates that you spend more time and money when selecting the equipment.

And rather than just plop the cheapest external mic on the cam and shoot, perhaps spend a bit more, take some time and learn how to use it, and have something that will last you a long time.
 
Joe, my friend, you just said what I said, but much nicer and more elequently.

In all honesty, Joe is right, your audio equipment will outlast almost everything else. Oleg has posted about a 20 year old MKH416 that he still uses. 20 years ago there was no DV, and 20 years from now HDV will be a dinosaur.

Audio is an investment that for a good portion of your purchases can be reasonably future proof.

Jeremy
 
Well I love good forum rumbles. Yankee sure walks the talk. And it's easy for people starting out to overlook sound, spend their hard earned franklins on a dvx, and then say, now what about sound... (my friends and I) truth is, the mic you get is half the battle like Yankee said. Factor in the accessories, and simply experience of technique. If I could do it over, Id spend on the sound first. Because, that will outlive any camera. People just arent willing to spend upwards of 3500 on sound, but a camera of course. And something I completely understand (heh and did =)

I still think you can get a lot out of even one mic, 500 and under, if you do your research, and live through experience. Try using with camera, then seperate mixer, etc. Get some technique down, rest will follow. What Im doing now with my Rode. Certainly not the best mic, not worst for price either, but eh, now im babbling.
 
TheYankee said:
Audio is an investment that for a good portion of your purchases can be reasonably future proof.
Click to expand...

Been pointing this out forever now. Of course it does not apply to wireless which is the one area that is rapidly improving and shifting. With digital TV eating up the channels we are quickly running out of space and will need a solution in the next 10 years.

Also, electret mics do not have the same long life that externally polarized condensor mics have (your ME66 or 897 are gonna die in the next 10 or 15 years). Of course, most will upgrade these mics in the first year anyways. :)

Cheers
 
wabbit said:
Been pointing this out forever now. Of course it does not apply to wireless which is the one area that is rapidly improving and shifting. With digital TV eating up the channels we are quickly running out of space and will need a solution in the next 10 years.

Also, electret mics do not have the same long life that externally polarized condensor mics have (your ME66 or 897 are gonna die in the next 10 or 15 years). Of course, most will upgrade these mics in the first year anyways. :)

Cheers
Click to expand...


Wabbit, riddle me this... As a pro (which I continue to say I am not), does it not frustrate you to see people minimize the role, importance, and investment required for sound and focus only on picture?
 
Dude, don't get me started....and believe me I could rant all day on that topic.

If it was just the not-ready-for-primetime players that did this I would be happy but even serious long time professionals are often guilty of this sin. A producer that has been burned enough before is the sound guys best friend.

Best

....man, I have to get back to work but you truly have me wanting to start my rant. :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top