I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

A

alveraz

Veteran
Why isn't this area (screenwriting) in the filmmaking area? It just made me chuckle when I noticed. No big deal, it just seems so indicative relating to many problems with Indie filmmaking. (from my humble perspective of course). The script simply gets no love :( ...and the film suffers.

Not sure if I'll quote this right, but I read this somewhere, 'You can make a good script into a good movie, you can make a good script into a bad movie, but, you can not make a bad script into a good movie.

For shame, for shame. Just an observation.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

youre quoting me ;)

and i am quoting . . . someone on inside the actor's studio but i forget whom exactly
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Well if you consider that the name of this board is DVXUser...it could be extended to the conclusion that the primary focus of our little chat here is to discuss the uses, techniques and underlying technology associated with the DVX camera.

In that vein, I can see how writing is an off topic...but then also Directing should be off topic.

Yeah, I think I mean to say that you have a point.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Screenwriting in itself deserves it's very own area away from 'filmmaking'. It is a craft in itself and although film is the ultimate collaborative medium; it's starts first with a script.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Hi Barnes. That's a valid point. I would counter however with the 4 or 5 other topics that contradict that theory, located under 'filmmaking', and another area that escapes me...

Anyway, the point was not really aimed at the context of the site. It was really just an observation how many filmmakers view the writing process. I would go as far to say it's the lack of screenwriting skills that hinders most, so they in turn shy away from this part of the process and their film suffers. I was a writer first, before I became a filmmaker, that's why I may have a different take, not sure.

I would just re-emphasize the importance of a solid screenplay, for those who plan to shoot their own material. It would be interesting to know where folks here place the script in terms of importance to their film. I'm sure many would say, very high, but, I really wonder if that is the case.

There's solid arguments for each side, I understand that. I know a few colleagues who prefer to write one draft, then run with it. They claim that it keeps the original piece fresh and if they went through the re-write process it would only lose the original intentions and flavor of their conceptual design. How about you guys?

I lean the other way myself, I write, I re-write, then I re-write again. Then, I workshop, do a few table reads with crew, then actors, and so forth. As the old addage goes, a script is never 'truly' finished. I do all this mind you without compromising the story, it's a technique I think, or at least I've learned how to stay objective without affecting the original direction.

Thoughts?

Thanks for letting me ramble, I went a little overboard, my appologies. Take care.

(where's spellcheck when you need it? grr.)
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Write one draft and run with it? That's insane. I was a writer first as well, so I have that mentality to continually edit as well.

I'm paraphrasing here, but Hemingway said that he wrote 100 pages of **** for every one page he wrote that was brilliant. He said he tried to throw out the ****. He may have been exaggerating, and I’m sure the 100 to 1 ratio wouldn’t be quite so extreme today since we all write in word processors and immediately remove garbage that would have ended up in first drafts back in Hem’s day. And of course writing a novel is a different beast than writing a screenplay. But still, I know I’m not as gifted as Hemingway. So if he felt the need to rewrite his work, I’ll certainly follow his model.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

I think that a lot of "filmmakers" aren't interested in being writers either way, and the ones that are interested in writing should usually be prevented from the process.

I personally tend to have more respect for directors who don't insist on writing, as they typically aren't very good at it anyway. I feel that those that insist on the auteur methods of filmmaking are sometimes doing it out of a deeply ingrained sense of artistic inadequacy coupled with some serious control issues.

Film is a collaborative medium, and since the 70’s there’s been this ridiculous push to place all the creative content and control into the hands of a singular force. The art has often suffered because this auteur method has been adopted as the standard rather then the exception, leading people with a modicum of talent to strive for a level of control they can’t really handle.

Often enough in those cases, writing suffers first and greatest in the pursuit of singular control. The second casualty is always directing, as this insistence upon mastery of the technical and creative aspects of camera and word come at the expense of any understanding of the acting process.

There are notable exceptions in this case, but my point being that the exceptions should be the only ones aspiring towards a dual writing/directing career anyway. Its obvious that some people have the talent to do that, and it’s also painfully obvious that there are many who don’t have those gifts.

So I understand what you’re saying about writing being an essential part of the process, but putting it into that context, it makes even more sense to me that it be further removed from the “filmmaking” sections of this site.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Wait, I lowered my sword in haste. One more retort to your latest (awesome) point.

One thing to consider is the budget and of course the budding director. Most are forced into the auteur 'method' based on necessity. Why discourage them, and force them into a place where they can not either afford to find a solid script to purchase, or they happen to live in bfe where no one close to them writes at all...

I'm just not 100% sold on this theory yet. Writing is free, exploration is free, where do we have the right to seperate that artistic freedom? Let them discover their inabilities through trial and error, and keep it in a filmmaking forum so they can learn the 101 of screnwriting, so if they have no choice but to write their own material at least they have a fighting chance from learning the basics in accesible forums, not just hidden areas, like the bottom of this forum?

hmm.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

First, let me say that creativity is not born of necessity. I don't believe that people become good at writing simply because there's no one else out there to do it. I think there are certain traits inside a person that draw them to excel in particular tasks, and often times those traits cause that same person to be lackluster at other tasks.

Also, a screenplay isn't one of quality simply because there's a pricetag attached. I mean that for every struggling filmmakers out there, there's a struggling writer in the same position. Obviously this becomes easier to unite the two when we're talking about short form projects, but I dare say that there are long form scripts out there seeking an inventive filmmaker to helm them.

Look, everyone's dying to work on film and very few people at the "dying to work on film" level are getting paid for their work. Money can't be used as an excuse to do everything yourself because there are tons of people out there who are currently working for free in this industry. I appreciate if someone has a particular talent in a certain aspect of filmmaking and they seek to exploit that talent in the process of directing, but it's crazy to think that there aren't people out there willing to do a better job then you while not getting paid.

I also dare say that writing isn't limited by geographical constraints. If there's a writer in Backwater, Arkansas who's stuff is good and there's a director in Sioux City Iowa who wants to collaborate, the internet is one damn solid bridge between.

Now, that being said...I'm not suggesting that the filmmaker has a duty to search far and wide for people to assist them in creating their product. Instead, I'm suggesting that they take advantage of what technical and artistic resources they might have available to them. It's great if someone *thinks* they can write, direct and photograph their own film...but what's the sense in doing all of that if there's a better writer and a better cameraman who will work for that director? What few people want to say is that they feel more gratified by authoring every aspect of the final product.

I suggest that the final film is the proof of the effort, not the individual tasks the director helmed in its creation.

Now that I’ve spilled my opinions everywhere, let me point out that I’ve gone completely off topic in an off-topic topic in an off-topic forum. Drink deep in my coincidence.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Well, I can not negate some of these obvious points, I mean of course theres an inate talent in writing that can't be taught, it's the 'it' factor, there's no doubt, never my point. Simply learning 101 does not a writer make.

The pricetag issue was for those seeking that route without the other 'obvious' point of finding someone for free. You can always find someone to work with that can do a better job, that's willing to donate there time...and all that, I get it, and I agree. And yes, geographical constaints can be overcome, I should have left that point out. Trying to articulate my point is where I fell short I guess.

My point is simple, pulling the process from their hands by hiding the knowledge based on, 'let someone else do it who can write' is not my idea of a solid answer. Maybe it's the bad taste of 'censoring or mildly hiding' that bothers me, I can't quite pin it down yet, I need to digest this thought for a while and hopefully when time allows I'll give another shot at this without convoluting the whole thing...as I think we've both managed to do already. time to move on. Some valid and very strong points Barnes, thanks for elightening.

Take care.
 
Re: I find it funny this is in 'Off Topic'

Ahh, no, I would never advocate any aspect of the film production process to be "unknown", as I think you're saying by ‘pulling the process’.

Instead I would hope that a filmmaker would immerse themselves in every aspect of filmmaking, know it inside and outside, and with a firm general understanding of each aspect...let it go and be partially governed by someone else's vision.

Thus a visual director can let a visionary cinematographer interpret the director’s wishes, a director’s eyes through a cinematographer’s choice of lens and light. And who would Bertolucci be without Storraro or Khondji anyway?

The more I've learned about filmmaking, the less I've wanted to write. I think this comes from the understanding of the magic that comes from interpretation of another's work and an earned respect for the process of writing.

I definatly would never say that a filmmaker should approach a topic with ignorance simply because they don't have an interest or talent in that subject. My disinterest in writing comes from a respect for the craft and a desire to approach material without the preconceptions that come from authoring it.

In any case, while I’ve babbled extensively on this subject, my original point was simply this:

A lot of directors out there don’t want to write because they want to be a director.

A writer/director by definition, is a different beast entirely…and one that rarely operates successfully in the wild.
 
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