I feel like my lav mic requires too much gain with my Zoom H1?

F

fuzzybabybunny

Active member
I recently bought the Zoom H1 and the Purple Panda Lavalier Mic.

I've been watching a bunch of videos on YouTube by Curtis Judd and he says that the best gain setting for the Zoom H1 is 40.

Well... here are my results for the Purple Panda:

48 kHz / 24 bit
Normal Talking Voice
Peaking dB : Gain Setting

-20 dB: 40
-18 dB: 50
-12 dB: 60
-6 dB: 70

I've read that you want your dBs to peak as high as you can go without hitting 0 and to shoot for something between -6 to -12 dB.

Well, at a gain of 40, Curtis' recommendation for the best signal/noise performance of the Zoom, I only peak at -20 dB. I have to crank it up to at least 60 to peak at -12 dB.

Does this mean the microphone has too much impedance? Should I buy another microphone that's perhaps more sensitive so that I can set the gain on the Zoom lower?
 
You won't find many mics that are that sensitive. And I tell you this because I have searched far and wide for them to use with the Zoom H1.

Aspen Mics are the best I've found straight into the H1 without any additional hardware.

You can get around -12dB between 50-60 for most people.

https://aspenmics.com/collections/all/products/hq-s

They even make a belt clip for the H1.

---

If you find a mic that can do 40, please share!
 
The Rode Lavalier is one of the more sensitive lavs. It's -33.5 dB re 1 Volt/Pascal, which is 10 dB more sensitive than that Aspen mic. Getting a more sensitive mic should only really be a concern if you are getting a low signal to noise ratio because of the recorder's self noise. If there's not too much noise for you, don't worry about it. Setting the gain high isn't a bad thing in and of itself.

There is no best gain setting on any device. If the recorded signal has objectionable clipping, the gain is too high. If the recorded signal is low enough to have audible quantization noise, the gain is too low. The best gain setting will depend on the mic you're using, the sound it is exposed to, and on your ability or inability to make adjustments during recording.

A gain setting of 37 or higher on the Zoom H1 decreases its equivalent input noise compared to gain settings of 36 or below. So if the choice is around 37, you might favor a setting of 37 over something a bit lower. But that should be a secondary consideration. A setting of 37 maximizes the dynamic range, *not* the signal to noise ratio. Maximizing the dynamic range shouldn't really be your goal. That Curtis guy is giving bad advice.

http://zoomforum.us/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15488
 
NorBro said:
You won't find many mics that are that sensitive. And I tell you this because I have searched far and wide for them to use with the Zoom H1.

Aspen Mics are the best I've found straight into the H1 without any additional hardware.

You can get around -12dB between 50-60 for most people.

https://aspenmics.com/collections/all/products/hq-s

They even make a belt clip for the H1.

---

If you find a mic that can do 40, please share!
Click to expand...

I see. So turning the gain to 60-70 on the Zoom H1 is actually normal for practically any mic and I shouldn't think about returning it for something else? The Curtis Judd video says that he sets his gain at 40 with an HMNSound Flat Response lavalier mic, but HMNSound's website doesn't load so I can't get any info on it.

His gain level of 40 seems *really low*. I almost can't believe that he would be peaking between -6 and -12 with that settings...
 
60-70 is definitely normal and everyone I've talked to in the past uses it around there. That's where most mics will fall.

Some others like my ECM-44B will need 80+!

Personally, I have never seen any microphone usable at level 40.
 
balazer said:
The Rode Lavalier is one of the more sensitive lavs. It's -33.5 dB re 1 Volt/Pascal, which is 10 dB more sensitive than that Aspen mic.
Click to expand...

I did use the Rode too...I think the first one that came out. I didn't see much of a difference but it's definitely more sensitive on paper.
 
balazer said:
The Rode Lavalier is one of the more sensitive lavs. It's -33.5 dB re 1 Volt/Pascal, which is 10 dB more sensitive than that Aspen mic. Getting a more sensitive mic should only really be a concern if you are getting a low signal to noise ratio because of the recorder's self noise. If there's not too much noise for you, don't worry about it. Setting the gain high isn't a bad thing in and of itself.

There is no best gain setting on any device. If the recorded signal has objectionable clipping, the gain is too high. If the recorded signal is low enough to have audible quantization noise, the gain is too low. The best gain setting will depend on the mic you're using, the sound it is exposed to, and on your ability or inability to make adjustments during recording.

A gain setting of 37 or higher on the Zoom H1 decreases its equivalent input noise compared to gain settings of 36 or below. So if the choice is around 37, you might favor a setting of 37 over something a bit lower. But that should be a secondary consideration. A setting of 37 maximizes the dynamic range, *not* the signal to noise ratio. Maximizing the dynamic range shouldn't really be your goal. That Curtis guy is giving bad advice.

http://zoomforum.us/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15488
Click to expand...

Ok. So a gain of 40 versus a gain of 70 on the Zoom H1 doesn't actually result in a worse signal / noise ratio? I was always under the impression that self-noise decreased with lower gains.

And yes, I was aware of the Zoom's weird increase in noise below 37. There's an audible click when you go from 36 to 37, so the Zoom is doing something weird in the background.
 
The difference in gain is more apparent at the higher levels.

You won't hear much difference from 50-60 as you will from 60-70 or 70-80.

But it would still be nice to find a high-quality mic that sounds solid at 50-60 because the $30-$40 mics only take you so far.
 
fuzzybabybunny said:
Ok. So a gain of 40 versus a gain of 70 on the Zoom H1 doesn't actually result in a worse signal / noise ratio? I was always under the impression that self-noise decreased with lower gains.
Click to expand...
Turning up the gain amplifies the Zoom's self noise as well as the input signal, leaving the signal to noise ratio unchanged. When the recorded signal is too low, quantization noise can become a problem. Having the gain too low can cause that, but it's not a function of the gain alone. It depends on the input signal too.

Keeping the recorded signal in the -6 dBFS to -12 dbFS range (or slightly higher or lower) will keep the quantization noise low. That's really all you need to know about setting the gain, on any recorder.
 
What's the intended use for this setup? I would seriously consider maybe some better performing equipment if the budget allows and is appropriate for the type of work you are doing (i.e., getting paid).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top