I can't trust my zoom H1's anymore..

T

tikigod19

Well-known member
I have used zoom H1's for wedding speeches (one on each speaker plus dotted around the room) for a few years now and about once or twice per year, one of them malfunctions. Usually I pick it up after the speeches and push stop and the spinning wheel that usually spins for a second or so just never stops. I have to pull the battery and find nothing is recording. In most cases this is one of the lav mics of a crucial speaker, this is when my heart usually sinks and I vow never to use them again, but I keep going back.


Recently for the first time I had a different malfunction. I took the recorder from the grooms pocket and found the timer was stuck on 24 mins 13 secs and wasnt going up. No buttons did anything, the h1 just didnt respond so I battery pulled. When I turned it back on I found the 24 min recording was intact and usable (although useless to me on this occasion - it wasnt recording when he spoke).


I use genuine sandisk class 4 8GB micro SD cards and all units have their firmware up to date.


My questions..


1) am I using the right cards? Is there any more expensive (you cant put a price on reliability) cards you guys would recommend?
2) is there anything I can do to prevent such malfunctions?
3) Are there any alternative recorders that are thought to be 100% (or as near to is as you can be with digital) reliable?


Thanks all
 
If you haven't already done so, contact zoom customer service.
Have you tried updating/reinstalling the firmware?

Regarding your last question, I haven't really heard about any small handhelds being prone to malfunction when using a card recommended by the seller (except the Microtrack and Microtrack II). I would look at the widely popular models as they should have a better history of any failures, such at the sony M10 or the Olympus LS-series. Other choices are the Roland R-05, and the Tascam DR-series.
 
Thanks Jesper, yes theyre up to date but I'll contact zoom and see what they suggest, I also posted this in their forum.

I liked the look of the Tascam before I bought the zooms but like you say I'd definitely replace them (if I choose to replace) with a very popular model with little or no reports of malfunction..
 
wow, zoom were useless.
They said it must be faulty, send it for a non warranty repair.

I have 7 zooms used 50 times a year each and over the last 4 years I have a had a total of 3 problems (each time with a different unit)

That is not a faulty unit!
 
tikigod19 said:
(you cant put a price on reliability)...
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Well then use wireless lavs and a recorder you can monitor.

I'm guessing that since you have had problems and you are still using them for paid work there is indeed a price on reliability. And it's not too high ;~)

I'm also guessing that suggesting a solution that is going to cost $5,000 or so is not what your looking for.

Personally I don't have a high opinion of Zoom recorders. I give them credit for pretty much starting the high quality handheld market, but they are pretty light duty units. The card door on the one I own (H2) broke off early on. And the quality of the recordings are a bit problematic in most of the units I have seen.

I have better experience with Marantz, Olympus, and Tascam recorders. Nagra makes a very small recorder also and I'm guessing it's a rock, but probably no cheaper than a bunch of wireless lave and a multi track recorder.
 
I've had wireless interference problems before which have put me off. Although it'd be great to monitor, having them all going into one recorder scares the hell out of me no matter how good it is..

Zoom have said most lock ups are down to battery. They say I'm better off using single use alkaline batteries than rechargeable. Could be pricy but I'm going to try and hope it cures it.

I may look into a tascam also.. Things have no doubt moved on since I specced up the zooms 3 year's ago
 
Seems like using seven consumer level recorders without monitoring is more risky than running all of your sound into a pro level deck that you can monitor. Especially with a paying gig that you can't do over. At least with a single recorder/mixer, you know when there's an issue and can correct it on the spot. I've never had actual digital recording failures with my Marantz or Roland recorders--except when I was using minidisc. Those were dark days. What wireless systems were you using before? That's one place that you can't cheap out. I've not found anything cheaper than the Sennehiser G2 or G3 that worked even passably.
 
Yeah it was g2 I had. It was more the effort of finding out what frequency the venues mic was on and having to change.. Much easier on the simple dictaphone type recorders, I just wish they were reliable. What sort of mixer would you recommend? Doesn't sound practical for a fast moving one man band on a wedding day though..
 
Fast, cheap, or good. Pick any two.

I've had wireless interference problems before which have put me off. Although it'd be great to monitor, having them all going into one recorder scares the hell out of me no matter how good it is..
Click to expand...

Professionals do this every day with anything from two to ten wireless systems going to a single recorder. With proper preparation and reliable equipment, it works. It's not cheap though...

The best answer for you might be to rent zaxcom wireless (it's really not that expensive to rent, unless you do this all the time). Each transmitter has inbuilt recording, in case any interference problems occur.
 
What's your typical setup like? Is there a reason why you're running seven lines at once? Are you running lavs off the Zooms or just the internal mic? The big plus of using good recorders is that they'll have better limiters that will keep your levels from clipping if you do have to run them unattended.
 
DNN said:
What's your typical setup like? Is there a reason why you're running seven lines at once? Are you running lavs off the Zooms or just the internal mic? The big plus of using good recorders is that they'll have better limiters that will keep your levels from clipping if you do have to run them unattended.
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yeah each h1 has a lav mic attached and i've pretty much (with experience) got my levels sorted now and found the sweet spot between not being too low for quiet chat and not peaking when people shout, but to be honest I do occasionally get clipping.
7 lines at once as they're wedding speeches and I dont want to stop people in between speeches and move recorders etc. Jema mentioned 'with proper preperation..' but the beuty of the zooms is I have them in the bag at all times with a lav attached, and if someone pops up for a surprise speech I can chuck one in their pocket and away I go..

Sound quality is far less important to me than reliabiity.As long as a lav mic is near the speakers mouth I'm happy, even if the quality isnt as good as it could be, the difference between a table recorder and a lav mic is obviously clear as day
 
tikigod19 said:
yeah each h1 has a lav mic attached and i've pretty much (with experience) got my levels sorted now and found the sweet spot between not being too low for quiet chat and not peaking when people shout, but to be honest I do occasionally get clipping.
Click to expand...

I just leave my h1's on auto level for lavs. Helps when the bride is talking by raising the levels on its own. I wouldn't, however, leave it on auto level for a sound system (if you ever plug an h1 in) because it always clips (at least for me).

I've been using the h1's for 2 years and haven't had any problems with them (other than one completely dying on me after 3 months; it wouldn't turn back on). For sound system audio I use a Tascam DR-40, with a peak reduction track. I've had more problems with the DR-40 than I have with the h1's. The DR-40 will corrupt an entire audio file 1/80 times (for me). So I know that at least one of my weddings, interviews, or some other production is going to lose a file. For this reason I also use a backup (in the form of an h1 recorder and a lavalier; VT-500). I feel your pain on the lav mic problem, especially for a groom. Sometimes that's the only way to get their audio. I lost a groom's audio earlier this year on one of my only weddings that the officiant didn't have them speak into the sound system microphone; it was lost for another reason, nothing to do with the h1 itself.

Anyway, I hope you find a proper solution! Audio is a beast I will probably never be ready to entirely tame.
 
Chris S. Alexander said:
I just leave my h1's on auto level for lavs. Helps when the bride is talking by raising the levels on its own. I wouldn't, however, leave it on auto level for a sound system (if you ever plug an h1 in) because it always clips (at least for me).
Click to expand...

Interesting that you say that as I never really put mine on auto unless I'm really clueless as to what the sound level is going to be like (never with a lav attached) because I find if the volume of the signal going in suddenly increases then the h1 takes a second or so to reduce its level accordingly, resulting in the audio track to distort for that 1-2 seconds its a real pain for me as it'd be so much easier to just put everything on auto and not worry about setting levels. I also find if the speaker stops talking for a while, maybe giving out gifts, then the h1 increases the level so high that it introduces a bit of hiss.

What is the peak reduction track you mention?
 
When you have a situation where the recorder stops functioning and you have to kill it, after which there appears to be no recorded file -- the file might actually be there. Try using a good file recovery utility like Pandora. It's saved my rear a time or two.

http://www.pandorarecovery.com/

Might be wise (if you're not already doing this) to format the card in the H1 before recording for a wedding. That way if you have to use a file recovery utility, the only files on the card will likely be the ones from your current gig.

Hope that helps!
 
thanks David. Yep I always format before every gig and have unsuccessfully tried recovery software in the past, although not Pandora. thanks again
 
tikigod19 said:
What is the peak reduction track you mention?
Click to expand...

Essentially the DR-40 has a "main" track at +12db and a "peak reduction" track at 0db. There isn't any noticeable noise on the main track, so I find it very useful especially when I'm editing at the main track peaks out. In which case I use the peak reduction track.

In response to what you said about the 1-2 second delay on the h1's auto level...there is a small delay, but during a wedding there is always noise coming from somewhere (officiant, music, etc) which helps to keep the levels a little lower while the mic isn't in use, so that when someone does start speaking into they don't peak out too much. There are some instances where it does peak a little bit, but it's better for me to have it peak every once in a while than to have to raise all of the bride's audio really high and have a ton of digital noise during her vows. It works for me, but I'm sure an audio engineer is crying somewhere right now.
 
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