HVX Plunge

Barry_Green said:
This is a hijacked thread, but man it's tough to keep up with it! This is one of the fastest-growing threads I've seen in a long time! :)
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It's because Mark is buying an HVX. I'll really be able to see the wrinkles in his Manhole videos now.

Errrr.... yeah.
 
LOL. What's funny is that Man-Hole will continue to be shot in SD, because it's destination is the web. The HVX is mainly because I was afraid of losing that deal with the P2 and because as I said, I am getting a lot more shooting work where the features make sense. Also for shooting my "serious" shorts, like the DramaFest thing, which are more destined for fest submission, the HVX is now a must in my eyes.

Yeah, I don't care about powering HDs. As I said, in that scenario, I am on set anyway, and once you set the whole rig up, and power it out of DC, it just stays put, and you run a long firewire cable.
 
Mark Harris said:
LOL.

Yeah, I don't care about powering HDs. As I said, in that scenario, I am on set anyway, and once you set the whole rig up, and power it out of DC, it just stays put, and you run a long firewire cable.
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Yeah, valid. Most of the time you're tethered to some kinda power supply during a scene so I guess two or three more cords really isn't a big deal.

Sorry to totally Hi-Jack your thread, but I learned from it. Totally answered a question or four I had!
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, let's just say that that sounds like a quote from someone who's never used the cards. ;) I think the FS makes a great interim step from tape-based to tapeless, but if the cards had bigger capacity I can't see why anyone would put up with the limitations of disk-based recording vs. solid state. Side by side, face to face, the cards are just better in every possible way, except total capacity and current cost per that capacity. But operationally, functionally, reliably, etc, the cards are just better. Shock-proof, heat-proof, dust-proof, humidity-proof, no need for a cable, no need for a separate battery, tiny size, all sorts of benefits.


So let me just put it this way: Coffee, you know how much better you like the FireStore over tape, yes? Take that same amount of improvement, and that's how much better the cards are over the FireStore. :thumbsup: There's really nothing else like them, and once the capacities jump up a bit, you'll be editing six streams of HD straight from the cards, never even bothering to transfer to a hard disk. A quantum shift in workflow is coming, probably starting with the 32GB cards.
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Hey buddy, I've used the HVX with the little P2 cards! lol, just kidding, but I did use the P2 card/editor on location/P2 card runner on board method. I liked it but if you ask me it's different then the FireStore method as you're not forced to stop production due to space limitations on the cards.

operationally/functionally - would the P2 be better the FS? There's more on site interaction involved as you have to run cards around.

reliably - Are you saying that P2 cards are more reliable then HD recording? Couldn't a card fail just like a HD? It's happened to me before.

heat-proof - Ah, ok you got it there but I'm not sure how hot the FS can get.

dust-proof - I feel the P2's were subjected to more wear and tear/hazards then the enclosed HD in a FS. The P2 has to be pulled out of the case (HVX) and physically handled by someone to transport to a laptop. Wouldn't that make it more vulnerable then the FS?

humidity-proof - If the FS was in a location that was humid enough for concern then I'm sure I'd be worried about the actual camera HVX or A1 well before there was a danger.

no need for a cable - DOH! oh shut up show off! LOL:)

no need for a separate battery - Ok, I give up, lol.
tiny size - I give up twice.


I totally respect you Barry so trust me, my questions/statements aren't meant to be arguementative (is that a word, lol).

Jay
 
No prob Jay! I think the FS is brilliant for a tape camera, I just am less impressed with it when the cards show what can be done. But I'm not gonna argue about capacity, the FS has capacity all over the cards right now, and even moreso when the 3.0 update comes out.

As for running cards back and forth, it all depends on the type of shooting you're doing of course. For dramatic narrative, I can usually get through half a day on just one 4GB card. So, offload during lunch and start the rest of the day with two fresh cards, no problem.

For documentary or interview, that's a whole different ball of wax entirely. The one time I did an hour-long interview on 4GB cards, it was a bit hair-raising and I'd probably rather just use the FS for that.

But, these are only issues while the cards are small. What I'm saying is, the handwriting is on the wall, solid state is the future (even if it's not P2, it's gonna be solid state: maybe RedFlash, maybe AVC-HD on Secure Digital cards, but it's gonna be solid state). Disk recording is an interim step, just like it was with digital cameras. When CF cards were really small, people came up with MicroDrives, hard drives on a CF card. But as soon as CF cards got big enough, everyone ditched MicroDrives. Same thing with audio -- we went from tape to hard disk recorders, but hard disk is kind of obsolete now that quality solid-state memory recorders are out. I'm just saying that's the same thing that'll happen with professional video, as soon as the cards are large enough everyone will completely abandon hard disks and tape and optical disk.

But for many people, that's the future. For some of us, with certain workflows, the cards are big enough today to do what we need, for some they're not -- and for those, the FireStore is an ideal solution. And for some, they shoot so much that tape or optical disc is the only practical way for them, right now. For today, go with the solution that makes the most sense for you today. But in the future, there's not a doubt in my mind whatsoever that it's gonna be solid state, just like in still cameras.
 
Barry_Green said:
Stop searching, there aren't any (other than the Panasonic PCD20 or whatever it's called). Which is $2000, but it supports FW800 too.

What you want is the duel-systems PCMCIA->ExpressCard adapter, it's due out in probably two weeks and should cost something like $100.
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My computer has a slot for it.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yes, it unwraps the MXF file, and re-creates a new Quicktime file, copying the contents of the MXF file into the new Quicktime file. So it's a lossless conversion (other than discarding the metadata and such). But going through that step necessitates copying to a hard disk, you could never edit straight off the card, so you'd always have to go through that conversion process. If FCP6 adds straight native MXF support, that limitation goes away and FCP becomes, perhaps, the absolute ultimate HVX companion.
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How is the process in Avid Xpress HD? If I am not mistaken, it can take in straight MXF files.
 
And does Avid take forever to import MXF? It takes forever to import a lot of footage for cutting, which is why I've opted out of that as my PC-based solution.
 
Kholi said:
And does Avid take forever to import MXF? It takes forever to import a lot of footage for cutting, which is why I've opted out of that as my PC-based solution.
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Hm, doesn't take forever for me to import files... sometimes if an MOV file has a weird codec, or an AVI file it takes some time.
 
Brandon Rice said:
How is the process in Avid Xpress HD? If I am not mistaken, it can take in straight MXF files.
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Avid supports editing straight off the cards too. Just not as elegantly as EDIUS does. Avid is a bit more limited than EDIUS in the formats it supports, but I'm hoping that the next release of Avid will fix that.
 
Barry_Green said:
Avid supports editing straight off the cards too. Just not as elegantly as EDIUS does. Avid is a bit more limited than EDIUS in the formats it supports, but I'm hoping that the next release of Avid will fix that.
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Cool, that's what I was hoping to hear :)
 
Wow mark.... your HVX TRhread turned into the HVX FAQ... sweet.... i needed to know all of this. I AM getting mine on SAT. IT WILL HAPPEN.

Welll if AbelCinetech is open on Sat that is.....
 
TimurCivan said:
Wow mark.... your HVX TRhread turned into the HVX FAQ... sweet.... i needed to know all of this. I AM getting mine on SAT. IT WILL HAPPEN.

Welll if AbelCinetech is open on Sat that is.....
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Oooo Timur getting the HVX. 2 HVX shoot with Adapters!?!?!

I just got a better grip on HVX settings and feel a lot better about the image. Too bad I left Barry's book at the office, so I'm trying to scour the site to find out what 1/60 shutter is equivalent too. What degree, I mean.
 
Now we just have to decide which one to shoot dramafest with...do I smell a two cam shoot? Hmm? Or, as I like to put it, how to turn a three day shoot into a six day shoot?
 
Well, I got home from Boston tonight to find a sweet little surprise...:) It's here, folks.

But it's sooooo noisy...Oh well, guess I'll send it back and get an A1...
 
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