Hvx Ntsc Vs. Pal

J

Jon Oskar

Well-known member
Hi,

Wondering if you guys could help me out to clarify some points? I want to buy a HVX, but as the NTSC version is allot cheeper i want to go with that.

Some facts

-I will mostly use the camera in PAL land
-I will not use this cam in SD mode
-I would like to be able to do DVD's, film-out, screenings on digital projectors in PAL land.

Some questions

What are points to consider?
Can i go from DVCPRO50HD to SD PAL DVD? What am i loosing?
Is there a quality difference between DVCPRO50HD PAL or NTCS?
What happens when i make PAL DVD's from NTSC DVC PRO50HD?
What happens to slow motion when going from NTSC to PAL?
When editing DVCPRO50 NTSC footage on a PAL station, will i have problems?
Will i be able to watch the footage on the production monitor when CC the footage?
Will my macbook be sufficient as a field monitor and to CC the footage?
What format is the best to shoot for DVD's, film-out, screenings on digital projectors?
Is the US camera warranty world wide?
Can we expect a new HVX version anytime soon?

If you can answer any of theses questions it would be greatly appreciated

Many thanks
 
Short answer: you unquestionably want the 50Hz/PAL version. You will save yourself a world of headaches by going with the proper tool for your region.
 
Jikes that was harsh!:) So no way for me to weasel my way around it via HD? 2000$+ is allot of money if my head ache can be cured with an aspirin.
 
You're of course free to proceed however you wish, but the US version is going to produce footage that is incompatible with every television on your continent. It's a pretty big headache, and you'll need a lot of aspirin.

It's all about using the right tool for the job. You can use a cinder block for a hammer, or you can use a hammer for a hammer. One is better suited to the job than the other is, although admittedly the cinder block would be cheaper... :thumbsup:
 
Hahahahahaha!!! you the man Barry, thank you for the feed back. Now im gona need an aspirin anyways. Dam im so bummed out, i really thought i had a master plan!
 
Jon Oskaar said:
-I will mostly use the camera in PAL land
Click to expand...
Then you want the PAL version.
-I will not use this cam in SD mode
Click to expand...
Doesn't really matter, US HD is incompatible with EU HD anyway.
-I would like to be able to do DVD's, film-out, screenings on digital projectors in PAL land.
Click to expand...
Then again, you want the PAL version.

What are points to consider?
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Workflow, incompatibility with all PAL televisions, broadcasts, and other existing television infrastructure, incompatibility with EU HD broadcasts, and the fact that you probably won't be able to sell it for nearly as much as a PAL version, considering all your local buyers will be wanting the PAL version.
Can i go from DVCPRO50HD to SD PAL DVD? What am i loosing?
Click to expand...
You could, but it would involve some substantial modifications to your footage. Your NTSC DVCPRO50 is going to have to be field-blended and time-stretched and physically stretched (from 720x480 up to 720x576) and have the aspect ratio corrected. You can download DVFilm.com's Atlantis software and try it, but recognize you'd have to run through this process for every frame of footage you ever want to view on television or broadcast. Undoubtedly the PAL HVX would deliver a superior image to a field-blended time-stretched pixel-stretched NTSC conversion.

Is there a quality difference between DVCPRO50HD PAL or NTCS?
Click to expand...
Not really, as long as each is shown on its appropriate system. But comparing NTSC DV50 that's been converted to PAL, vs. PAL DV50? No doubt the PAL DV50 will be notably superior to the converted NTSC.

What happens when i make PAL DVD's from NTSC DVC PRO50HD?
Click to expand...
Ugly time-stretched field-blended motion-artifacted ghosted pixel-stretched DVDs will result. Now, that's probably being a bit harsh; again, try Atlantis and see what you think. But basically it's undoubtedly not going to look as good as if you'd just shot in PAL in the first place.

What happens to slow motion when going from NTSC to PAL?
Click to expand...
Same thing as everything else.

When editing DVCPRO50 NTSC footage on a PAL station, will i have problems?
Click to expand...
Of course. You'll either be editing as NTSC, which means it's unlikely any TV will show the signal as you edit, or you'll convert to PAL first before editing, which means the whole time-shifted field-blended picture-stretched issue. It can be done, but it will obviously introduce complications.

Will i be able to watch the footage on the production monitor when CC the footage?
Click to expand...
If you have a multistandard monitor, probably yes. If you're using a conventional CRT or an HDTV, maybe not.

What format is the best to shoot for DVD's, film-out, screenings on digital projectors?
Click to expand...
The format that's supported by your country's television system.

Is the US camera warranty world wide?
Click to expand...
No.

Can we expect a new HVX version anytime soon?
Click to expand...
No, it's only been out in the EU for about three months.
 
I would like to point out, that there IS a source now for the PAL version in the USA.
They've been selling them for about 2 and a half weeks now! ;-)
Naturally it's at MSRP, but hey, it's GREAT to have it available finally!
 
Note that the NTSC can do 60p slowmotion compared to Pal HVX that can only do 50- that's a bit disappointing for Pal users. It means no super slow motion.

Ntsc HVX- american retail version also comes with Barry Green's HVX book and Magic Bullet Editors- that's one heck of a deal!

Pal version? No bundles-except for Euro KATA bag (which is still not arriving to endusers...) and NZ that also offers the book, if I'm correct, but no Magic Bullet.

I have a PAL HVX and am quite happy with it... I would just like to point out that there are benefits for purchasing the US machine.

As for Pal to NTSC conversions in HD... If you shoot 24P in NTSCHD, the conversion is basically lossless to Pal HD or SD and you don't need to go trough the complicated process Barry stated. However, If you shoot DVCPRO 50 (which is a different format than dvcprohd, and is SD), or any Interlace at 60 fields, you have to go trough the ntsc to Pal mess described by Barry.

We want to get the same good deals you guys get there in the US, goddamit :)
 
SPZ said:
Note that the NTSC can do 60p slowmotion compared to Pal HVX that can only do 50- that's a bit disappointing for Pal users. It means no super slow motion.
Click to expand...
It's not that big of a deal. Download and watch my surfing footage from Australia, shot at 50fps -- it's 2:1 slow motion, vs. the US version's potential 2.5:1 slow mo; yes the US can be a little slower but it's not like it's night-and-day different.

As for Pal to NTSC conversions in HD... If you shoot 24P in NTSCHD, the conversion is basically lossless to Pal HD or SD and you don't need to go trough the complicated process Barry stated.
Click to expand...
Correct in that the 24p to 25p conversion is frame accurate, however a) you'd have to speed up the audio, and b) no mention was made in this thread of sticking to 24p/25p. So 60p->50p is still going to have some issues.


We want to get the same good deals you guys get there in the US
Click to expand...
That's all up to your regional Panasonic marketing director. They have discretion over what bundles to offer (if any). Ask for them and maybe you'll get them!
 
SPZ said:
Ntsc HVX- american retail version also comes with Barry Green's HVX book and Magic Bullet Editors- that's one heck of a deal!
Click to expand...
The Magic Bullet Editors deal is for the DVX, not the HVX.
 
Barry_Green said:
Doesn't really matter, US HD is incompatible with EU HD anyway.
Click to expand...

So they missed the one chance to get rid of the NTSC/PAL/SECAM problem? That is bad. So HD material shot for NTSC cannot be used in PAL land, as they still have to convert it. And films shot in 24p or 25p are incompatible, so they have to convert it for the other region. Bad.

Barry_Green said:
You can download DVFilm.com's Atlantis software and try it, but recognize you'd have to run through this process for every frame of footage you ever want to view on television or broadcast.
Click to expand...

Sure, original material will always be superior in quality. And I also did not believe in standards conversion. The last I had tested was a software like the one from DVfilm, it cost about 200$, and was more or less only there for format conversion NTSC <-> PAL. I did test it, and the result was so bad, I would not even have spent 10 bucks for it. But then fortunately I got my hands on a demo version of Canopus ProCoder 1.5, and the quality (one step conversion from DVX DV NTSC to PAL MPEG2) was so good, I immediately bought it. And the new version of TMPEG also seems to be very good, thanks to a bug in version 2.0 of ProCoder they even say it is superior. And then there is Compressor, and some other software solutions out there. And if you are really rich, then you can buy a hardware format conversion solution.
You also have to consider, that you can produce a plain NTSC-DVD, and it will play flawlessly on 99% of the PAL DVD players. I did a test with a NTSC skateboard DVD with no region code restrictions, and I tried to play it on a Panasonic PAL DVD/HDD recorder. Panasonic keeps to the DVD standard by the letter, forget about codefree and other gimmicks. And this NTSC DVD played absolutely flawlessly on this complete PAL setup.

I am one that uses a NTSC HVX in PAL land. I could save up money and buy a PAL HVX, but I would still hate it. It can't do 24p, it can't do 60p. And for that, you pay 2000 bucks more? The PAL HVX can do 23p, and it can do 25p, but no 24p. Who the heck needs 23p?! This is just ridiculous.

I could go on and on, for example about video produced for the web or PC playback, but finally everybody has to chose the solution he or she feels okay with.

Edit: Just think about it like this: The people in NTSC land get "their" 60i and "their" 30p. And as a big bonus, they get 24p. The people in PAL land get "their" 50i, and "their" 25p. And as a bonus? Right, nothing.
 
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Barry thank you for taking the time for an in-depth answer. Im sure this will be handy info for others thinking along this line. And Vidled your info just saved me soooo much money and it really hurts me to have taken the last PAL cam at B&H. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) Thank you, thank you!!! This business is all about the flow of info, i see this repeated day after day.

Thank you

DVXUSER!!!

:love4:
 
vidled said:
Didn't I read Barry mention that the PAL CAN do 24p afterall (or close thereto?)
Might be wrong.
Click to expand...

No no, you are right, he said, that it is about as accurate as 23.976 NTSC with it's 24.04. The interesting question is, if it is also possible to have 25p with the NTSC HVX.
 
Jon Oskar said:
.... it really hurts me to have taken the last PAL cam at B&H. :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) ....
Click to expand...

You son of....:furious3::furious3:
I told YOU NOT to buy the last one!!! I'll be....
That's the last time I help out for sure.....



:Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG):Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) Just kidding, of course;
cool that you got it from them. If you can afford it, get some extra warranty too (make sure you are covered with whatever you get). If I remember correctly, you can get the MACK warranty even after you buy? Like one month after even? Again, just make sure you can even use that warranty in case of a problem.

But anyway, enjoy the cam!

Now I have to go wait until they get stock back again.....
:)
 
It sometimes surprises me when people on this forum that arn't from Australia and comment on our television situation. Mostly it is just broadcast but you should state this? Plasmas and LCDs are the norm here now and are all multi region just like our dvd players have been for years. Most people are crossing over to HD now as the majority of our night time television is in high def. There are so many people here that buy ntsc dvds from over the net on Amazon etc and they even sell ntsc dvds over here everywhere.

I have done a lot of research on getting a NTSC camera seeing that we get so pooed here on price :( As long as you do all your shooting in 24p dvcprohd and edit and do everything in a 24p ntsc timeline all you have to do is run the final master through some 3rd party software in order to convert it to pal. Now these really do vary in quality so research them properly before you hand over your hard earned money for one :)

PS: the audio is a bit of a pain, but i only really work on music videos so it dosen't phase me. As for everything else just remember that if you own a newish television more than likely you will be able to play it in ntsc, just check your manual to make sure... but yeah everything for broadcast must be converted for Pal standards. If your only shooting home movies, weddings or skate videos etc ntsc shouldnt be a problem

Peace out
 
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