HPX170 and the AT4073 / ME66

Z

ZackGuido

New member
I'm in the market for a shotgun microphone to go along with a friend's Panasonic HPX170 to shoot some stuff this summer.

I go to a film school and we use ME80's / ME66's primarily, with a couple of higher-end microphone for the seniors / thesis projects, so I'm familiar with the microphone, and I know it will work fine with the HPX.

After reading a bunch of stuff online though, it seems like I'd much rather go for the AT4073 as opposed to the ME66 because it has a more natural and warm sound to it.

Will the HPX provide enough Phantom Power for the AT4073 to be powered correctly if we're running the microphone directly into the camera and mixing in there?

I don't have a big budget, and I know I'd be better off with a preamp, but I can't afford one right now.

And also, does anyone have a link to a side-by-side sound comparison of the AT4073 and the ME66? I've looked online for quite a while and I haven't found anything other than people saying that the 4073 sounds much more natural and warmer.

I -did- see (listen to rather) a side-by-side comparison of the MKH416 and the ME66, and after listening to the MKH416 the ME66 sounds extremely tinny.

Thanks a lot!
 
The 4073 will work fine going directly into the camera using 48v phantom power. You sacrifice not having someone babysit levels and having better pre-amps by not using a mixer/operator. Make sure to turn on the audio limiter (ALC) on the 170.

About the 416. It's been a film industry standard for a few decades; what does that say about it's ability?
 
ZackGuido said:
After reading a bunch of stuff online though, it seems like I'd much rather go for the AT4073 as opposed to the ME66 because it has a more natural and warm sound to it.
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All in all you should rely upon your own ears and not what other people say. Does the AT4073 sound warmer to you? A lot of the time "warm" means that the sound is colored by the microphone, so you are really choosing between a mic that captures sound with a great deal of accuracy as opposed to a mic that makes things sound "pleasing". In audio post there are lots of things that can warm up a sound, so clarity and accuracy are more important from my personal point of view.

Yes, I do listen to informed, experienced opinions as a baseline reference, but I make my own judgments with my own ears. And you will find that many professional production sound mixers will choose their mic based upon the situation - I like XXX mic when I'm recording this, but I like ZZZ mic when recording that. What you are searching for is a "Swiss Army Knife", one mic that can handle almost all of the situations in which you might be. The ME66 is one of those mics, which is why so many people use it. This is not to say that the AT4073 is a bad mic - in fact it is very nice for the price - but is it the right mic for you?

ZackGuido said:
I did see (listen to rather) a side-by-side comparison of the MKH416 and the ME66, and after listening to the MKH416 the ME66 sounds extremely tinny.
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At double the price the MKH416 should sound better than the ME66.

Oh, and on what type of audio system did you listen to the comparisons? Your laptop or some computer speakers? Or did you listen in an acoustically treated environment with properly calibrated reference speakers? What sounds good on earbuds or a home stereo may not sound good in the theatre.

You may find this article interesting.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
 
Alright thanks a lot, I'd love to have a dedicated mixer and pre-amp, but we've got a small crew and we're on a budget.

Sorry for asking for the comparisons, I see them now on that sticky and I should have checked that before posting.

But also, I've heard from a couple of people / articles that the 4073 isn't as well-suited for indoor use because of how sensitive it is. Is this going to be an issue if we're working with a controlled sound environment?

There will be probably an equal mix of outdoor and indoor use, so I'm looking for something that's going to have a good balance.

And from listening to the comparison of the ME66 and the AT4073, I have to say I much prefer the warm sounds from the AT4073..
 
Unclebob6958:

I of course didn't listen to the samples in an acoustically treated room with reference speakers, but that's all something to be taken into account in post anyways. I listened with good headphones, which I know is a biased way to listen, but you can still judge things side by side this way.

And in post, in terms of "warming up" the sound, I feel like people wouldn't give so much credit to the 4073 if the same sound could be achieved by the ME66 and a minor audio tweak on the software side of production.

--

So in your opinion, would I be better off going for the ME66, and if so, why do you think it's better suited for a Swiss Army application than the AT4073

Thanks a ton
 
unclebob6958 said:
All in all you should rely upon your own ears and not what other people say. Does the AT4073 sound warmer to you? A lot of the time "warm" means that the sound is colored by the microphone, so you are really choosing between a mic that captures sound with a great deal of accuracy as opposed to a mic that makes things sound "pleasing". In audio post there are lots of things that can warm up a sound, so clarity and accuracy are more important from my personal point of view.
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*ugh*

No offense, but this is horrible advice. The 4073a doesn't sound "warm"... it sounds ACCURATE TO REALITY. The term "warm" came about because of tinny, crappy mics... and other mics sounded "warm" in comparison... as opposed to COLD... and lifeless.

Compared to the 4073a, the me66 is a piece of sh*t.

Is that clear enough?

Don't waste your money. The new Rode NTG-3 is another damn good sounding microphone... or should I say damn good PERFORMING microphone. Call it what you want... but don't blow your money on an me66. It's crap (for the money)... when there are other GOOD choices that are more or less in the very same price-range.
 
ZackGuido said:
And in post, in terms of "warming up" the sound, I feel like people wouldn't give so much credit to the 4073 if the same sound could be achieved by the ME66 and a minor audio tweak on the software side of production.
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That's because most indie film types are completely ignorant when it comes to sound. I think that this mindset is due to the fact that they can't "see" it, they are so caught up in catching the visual images that sound just sort of disappears from the work flow. Now, I'm not trying to be insulting here; I wouldn't know the difference between a Panaflex and a Bowflex, but that's not my job - audio is my job. To do a job well requires knowledge and experience. Most indie film type have been conditioned to focus - pardon the pun - on the visual images. That's fine, but that is why there should be one person on the set whose entire responsibility is the production audio. However, in an effort to cut costs many indie filmmakers eliminate the production sound crew and hope for the best. In the current "D.I.Y." environment many products have come out to facilitate that; it (whatever the product) does it "automatically" in an attempt to make up for lack of budget or knowledge.

In other words, indie filmmakers who have no experience with sound will like the AT4073 because it takes no further effort on their part. As I previously stated, I prefer uncolored sound because I can warm it up if I need to, and I don't have to "uncolor" the sound if I don't like it.

There seems to be a perception that all audio engineers to is insert a plug-in and it magically does whatever is required. I spend as much time setting up my plug-in settings as the DP does setting up his shots. And in the audio world everything is linear, I actually have to listen to everything in real time. That would be equivalent to running a portion of a scene every time you moved a light or changed a camera setting.

ZackGuido said:
So in your opinion, would I be better off going for the ME66, and if so, why do you think it's better suited for a Swiss Army application than the AT4073

Thanks a ton
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"Opinions are like a**holes; everyone has one and they all stink."

I like the ME-66 because:

I've used it a lot and am used to it.

It can take a beating.

I prefer uncolored sounds when doing production sound.


You asked for my opinion, there it is...
 
Back when the me66 was $280... and there was nothing else to compete with it... and all cams like VX1000 REQUIRED the hot output... the me66 was a good mic to have in the kit.

Those days are over. There are better sounding mics that are STILL $280 today... and there are dramatically better mics that are in the same $400-$500 price-range of the me66 currently.

BTW... I'm not an "indi-film type"... my most recent gig was Stacy Lannert on Oprah last week... my sound was a major part of the show... and it sounded fantastic.

If you OWN an me66 then great... use it... but man... if you're trying to decide between an me66 and a 4073a for money you're going to spend TODAY? It's a no-brainer.

Frankly I'd be comparing the 4073a and NTG-3 in your price-range anyway... decide between those two. Then your choices are much simpler... extra reach or better pattern. (of course I still say "better pattern")

The "indi-types" comment is really ironic... considering that is the ONLY place you'll still see one of those used... indi-productions and really small market news (where the me66 is 10 years old).
 
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And let's not forget the need for a shock mount, zepplin and furry if you are going to boom outdoors. Personally, I swear by my Oktava MK012 for interiors... I also have a 66 with a furry for on camera stuff.
 
Mattin - (Or anyone else who can answer):

Which would you choose between the 4073a and NTG-3? I know you said the one with the better pattern, but I don't know which one that is =)


Thanks for all the help people
 
The 4073a has more reach... the NTG-3 has a better polar pattern... meaning, you'll be able to use the NTG-3 successfully in more environments (for a better example of why this is important, read Rippie's posts in the 416 vs. CS3e thread)... polar pattern is usually my top priority in mic choice.
 
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