HPX170 - A Second Look

Buck Forester said:
Jan, with all due respect I keep hearing this from you (and Barry) and others. You "will" have rolling shutter and long gop issues? I'm just saying this from experience, not heresay, that after many dozens of hours of handheld shooting I have yet to having rolling shutter issues. Why would you say this? Is it 'possible' to have rolling shutter issues? I'm sure it is. I would say being around lots of close-range full-frame flashes will probably trigger some rolling shutter issues, but trust me, you must, the EX1 doesn't go around skewing and wobbling like some of you, for some odd reason, imply it does/should/will. It simply doesn't. I've shaken the thing while recording, I've panned faster than I'll ever use for footage, and I'm not seeing this horrendous skew you keep talking about.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't care if you think this way (I mean, the way you talk about the EX1 I'm assuming it's part of your job to dismiss CMOS and promote CCD, which is fine, you're a rep), but I honestly hate to see people who are honestly seeking non-biased information come away thinking that the EX1 will shoot jello-vision and skew like a drunken sailor (no offense to drunken sailors). It's just not the case. I think highly of Panasonic and their cameras, they're great, and I like CCD-based cameras, I don't care about brand names nor do I care that Sony makes the EX1... I just know the EX1 is fantastic (so is the HVX - I'm not biased) and from many hours of shooting handheld running footage, I can attest with all honesty that skewing and wobble and these CMOS horrors you speak of are not even minutely the issue you make them to be. I would've taken my EX1 back in a heartbeat if that were the case. I didn't buy my EX1 because it's "Sony", I could care less. If Panasonic made it, or Canon or JVC or Kellogg's, I would've bought it just the same. I use my EX1 in field conditions and I would not put up with any problematic skewing or wobble if I saw it. That's the God's honest truth.

I don't say this to persuade anyone to go with the EX1. I don't care what people end up choosing. All these cameras are great and you'll be happy with any of them... there are some slight pros and cons to each, but they're all great. For those reading this who are contemplating a new purchase, just know these CMOS and Long Gop horror stories are way overblown (perhaps barring the full-frame flash issues if you do a lot of that kind of stuff). People would be returning these EX1's all over the place if they displayed these problems as stated here. Rock-n-roll, baby.
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I agree, I was using our new EX1 hand-held a lot of the time yesterday and on reviewing the footage I'm unable to find any problems with it. Some of the footage was shot by someone who didn't know about the rolling shutter and so was whip panning and was no way trying to compensate for it. And it looked fine.

So I think the skew issue is greatly exaggerated. Long GOP XDCam works as well as HVX200 intraframe from putting them side by side on a FCP prores timeline. The only problem with the imaging of the camera may well be for people shooting near flash photography or strobe lighting.

Like a stuck record I'll say it again. I've got a HVX and an EX1 so hold no bias to either company. I'm hoping my next camera will be a Red if anything.
 
Just because you put a disclaimer doesn't make it less offensive. Myself and drunken sailors everywhere demand an apology!
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ecking, please accept my apologies for the drunken sailor comment. I will send you a skewed ship so you can drink and remain standing upright. :beer: Party on.
 
gabrielflorit said:
This is not true. You can set the preview button to display all of the previously recorded clip. Record, stop, hit the preview button, start watching your clip, and if you need to start recording hit the record button. The camera will stop displaying the previously recorded clip. Hit record again and you're recording. All of this can be done without switching from the Record mode to the Display mode - no power-down/power-up necessary.
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If I want to show more than the last clip, you most definitely are in a power down, power up mode. I thought I was clear when saying a couple of clips.

Best,

jan
 
meh. If you have time to view more than the last clip you have time to powerdown/ powerup. Seems to me that most of the EX-1 "flaws" that keep being brought up are essentially non issues in the real world. The only one I see that could be a problem is the rolling shutter/ flash issue and that is only an issue for the event shooter.

I own a HVX and from my eyes the EX-1 is incredible. I love my HVX but am also confident to admit that the images coming out of the EX-1 are often mind blowing
 
HPX170 - Lens Diameter Bayonet Mount..

HPX170 - Lens Diameter Bayonet Mount..

Jan, Barry or anybody that can answer..

Do you know if the lens diameter/bayonet mount lens hood size of the HPX170 will be the same as the DVX100??

It would be nice to be able to use my Century Optics bayonet mount wide angle attachments for my DVX100 that I already own on this new camera that is coming out..

Any reply would be appreciated thanks..
Biz.
 
The answer is a qualified "yes, they are the same." Meaning, I took a DVX's lens hood and mounted it on an HPX170, and I put the 170's hood on the DVX, and they did both fit.

So the answer seems like yes, but I didn't have any Century/Schneider lenses to try it with, so that's why it's a "qualified" yes.

The bigger question is whether the optics of your SD Century lenses will be able to perform on an HD HPX170. I don't have the answer to that.
 
so that you might get a better picture with 2x tel with the hvx200a 82mm glass than the hpx170 72mm 2x tel glass . does size matter?
 
Size does matter some; the 170's maximum iris opening at full telephoto is f/3.0, vs. f/2.8 on the HVX200. It's a very small difference in sensitivity, but it's there.
 
No bugs at all. He said that they never lost a frame of footage or had any problems.

They used FCP, which causes you to have to needlessly, wastefully duplicate files -- but that's an FCP problem, not a P2 problem. Someday FCP will catch up with every other NLE on the planet. Until then, it can be overcome by using the Raylight or MXF4QT plug-ins within FCP.

He said:
This was kind of a crushing blow to our budget both monetarily and time wise
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Again, it's only due to using FCP in its native state. Had he used Raylight or MXF4QT, that would have been 100% avoided and they could have edited the footage instantly. Or, had they used Avid, or Premiere Pro, or Vegas with Raylight, or SpeedEdit, or Liquid, or EDIUS, or Autodesk, or ... well, any other editor, they would never have even faced the issue; all those editors have native MXF support. What they ran into is strictly an FCP limitation, which is easily overcome, and has nothing to do with P2 itself.

As for bumping the slate, that again is no problem, if you're using the user clilp name feature (which they weren't, because again they're using FCP which doesn't use the user clip name). But raylight would have sorted the clips by user clip name and solved any question.

As for "dailies", every frame of footage is instantly playable as dailies! Except, of course, when using FCP, sigh -- but again, easily and instantly overcomeable with Raylight or MXF4QT. Their mistake was in not having someone versed enough in the workflow. They could have saved enormous amounts of pain had they known to ask.

People sometimes get on my back for complaining about the stupid, idiotic, inefficient, and buggy FCP "Log & Transfer" function. This article is an ideal example of why I rant against it. It unnecessarily created a huge hassle for these folks, all of which could have been solved by following my #1 piece of advice for FCP users: don't use Log & Transfer. Use Raylight, or MXF4QT, or HD Log's MXF proxy file function, ANYTHING but Log & Transfer, and every one of their problems would have magically just *disappeared*.

The advice is simple: if you want great P2 integration, use EDIUS or Premiere Pro. If you want to use FCP, just consider it mandatory to get MXF4QT or Raylight.
 
Thanks for clearing that up Barry.. I'll pass this on to my filmmaking partners...
BTW... Great Sound DVD.. we are enjoying it very much...

Now... Isn't it time for a "Lighting" DVD??? ( hint hint )

One with a good section for lighting at night (woods,fields...etc)
 
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Yeah .. If they did a lighting DVD I'd buy it in a min.... We are about to film a comedy vampire movie and it would have come in handy for that one for sure... As it is now, as soon as we can get our HPX170 we will just have to do alot of test shots till we get it right.....
 
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I second the lighting DVD idea. I know there are already a couple out there, but I've never been impressed with any of them.
 
We will be using Final Cut Pro so, which program do most people use with their FCP? Do you recommend the Raylight or the MXF4QT ? Or are they about the same ?
 
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