Rippie
Veteran
if you think $420 bux is too much to spend on audio..
just get out now.
Become a gaffer or a grip/electric.
How's this set up for a ultra low budget feature?
- Thread starter Movie_Dude_3
- Start date
just get out now.
Become a gaffer or a grip/electric.
Steve House
Veteran
LOL Just wait, you ain't seen nothing yet! Take a look at the price tag on an industry standard Schoeps CMC641 hypercardioid mic for interior dialog recording out on a boom pole and a nice Sound Devices 442 mixer to control it. And if you want a portable recorder for multitrack double sytem sound, how about a Sound Devices 788, Deva 5, Nagra VI, or Cantar?
JordanBlock
Well-known member
Movie_Dude_3
Well-known member
Yeesh, some one get this guy a happy meal, I was just playing around.
I'm glad I have a lot to learn and ultimately, a lot left to spend in the future. I was just wondering, since now the topic shifted to money, how do you guys get the funds to afford the equipment? Like I said earlier, and some have skipped over, I'm still relatively young, living off $8.25 an hour. So an NTG-2 is a nice chunk of change.
unclebob6958
Well-known member
When you are starting out and working on a shoestring the secret is to make informed, intelligent purchases combined with some creative DIY. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
One thing to remember about audio gear vs. cameras - your audio equipment will long outlast your camera. I'm still using mics that I bought 25+ years ago, and they still sound great. There is a very lively market in classic mics from the 30's and 40's which command top prices and are proudly shown off by sound geeks as the jewel of their collection. So your audio investment will retain its value and continue to be useful through many cameras. The same applies to your primary accessories like tripods and boompoles. You should also buy quality cables; yeah, they take a big bite initially but save you in the long run because you are not replacing them as often and they are much easier to repair. Even less expensive is making them yourself.
Another "secret" is to learn your equipment inside-out, backwards and forwards. Many moons ago when I was a touring keyboard player my contemporaries were always buying the latest new toys. With knowledge of my gear, some patience and creativity I could create the sounds with my "old" gear they were spending thousands to get. Hey, Rap and Techno - some of the sounds have become ubiquitous - were started by guys using the cast-offs that no one else wanted anymore as not hi-tech enough.
Your projects are based on the script, the dialog between characters. If your audience can clearly understand what they are saying they will forgive some visual inadequacies, so get it right the first time.
One thing to remember about audio gear vs. cameras - your audio equipment will long outlast your camera. I'm still using mics that I bought 25+ years ago, and they still sound great. There is a very lively market in classic mics from the 30's and 40's which command top prices and are proudly shown off by sound geeks as the jewel of their collection. So your audio investment will retain its value and continue to be useful through many cameras. The same applies to your primary accessories like tripods and boompoles. You should also buy quality cables; yeah, they take a big bite initially but save you in the long run because you are not replacing them as often and they are much easier to repair. Even less expensive is making them yourself.
Another "secret" is to learn your equipment inside-out, backwards and forwards. Many moons ago when I was a touring keyboard player my contemporaries were always buying the latest new toys. With knowledge of my gear, some patience and creativity I could create the sounds with my "old" gear they were spending thousands to get. Hey, Rap and Techno - some of the sounds have become ubiquitous - were started by guys using the cast-offs that no one else wanted anymore as not hi-tech enough.
Your projects are based on the script, the dialog between characters. If your audience can clearly understand what they are saying they will forgive some visual inadequacies, so get it right the first time.
Jackson Miller
Well-known member
I think rippie does maybe need a happy meal haha. What is not expensive for one person might be expensive to someone else. Keep that in mind guys. And I mean obviously a guy like rippie, who makes his living with these tools can afford them. He almost can't afford to not have them. But think about other peoplen who are maybe not as serious or do not have resources rippie. After all, he did imply that this is a hobby for him. And yes, even with basic packages all around, film making is an expensive "hobby".
What you need to decide movie dude, is if this is just a hobby for you and how serious you are. I feel ya man. I am only 19 so I run into these money problems all of the time. It has stopped me from making movies this whole first part of the summer, which I think is bad. There is no real easy way to get money... haha. Be creative and work hard I guess. Don't use credit cards.
Also, learn as much as you can so that once you get the stuff, you make better stuff with your 500 dollar audio kit than people who have more resources but don't know anything. In my experience, there are a lot of people who wanna be "film makers" that know almost nothing about film making. You can learn the most from making films though.
Last thing: I agree with unclebob above. Invest in lights, audio, tripods, dollies, etc and not new cameras that come out. They hold their value. It's a better investment and you can keep using them. Use a cheap camera, or convince people with nice ones to come to you since you've got all of the gear that they don't have and can't make movies without.
Good Luck. Really try to pull $ from wherever you can.
What you need to decide movie dude, is if this is just a hobby for you and how serious you are. I feel ya man. I am only 19 so I run into these money problems all of the time. It has stopped me from making movies this whole first part of the summer, which I think is bad. There is no real easy way to get money... haha. Be creative and work hard I guess. Don't use credit cards.
Also, learn as much as you can so that once you get the stuff, you make better stuff with your 500 dollar audio kit than people who have more resources but don't know anything. In my experience, there are a lot of people who wanna be "film makers" that know almost nothing about film making. You can learn the most from making films though.
Last thing: I agree with unclebob above. Invest in lights, audio, tripods, dollies, etc and not new cameras that come out. They hold their value. It's a better investment and you can keep using them. Use a cheap camera, or convince people with nice ones to come to you since you've got all of the gear that they don't have and can't make movies without.
Good Luck. Really try to pull $ from wherever you can.
Movie_Dude_3
Well-known member
Sound advice, man. I said hobby earlier but really, my goal in life is to work in movies. I would like to direct but being honest, if I can make a living doing anything on set, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I just want to be involved with the movie biz in some way.
I'm studying Journalism at the same time and that's my fall back. Not much of a future to look forward to huh?
Some people will yell at you but if you can't afford 5 grand or even 300 dollars, it doesn't mean you shouldn't make a movie. People making snarky comments are technicians, not artists, and their whole life is the science of sound and rightfully so. Sound is just as important as the picture and in some cases more so.
But movies have been shot on children's toy cameras, 8mm, home video cameras, etc. Do the best with what you have, be creative, use ADR, make a silent movie if you have to. The Passion of Joan of Arc had no sound, Charlie Chaplin's The Kid had no sounds, Maya Deren's shorts had no sound.
While you make cheap movies save up for better gear. Of course 420 bucks isn't a lot for sound equipment, but neither is $10,000 for that matter. All the snarky people on here are missing the point of the first poster's question and making him feel like he isn't allowed to make movies or something. It's frustrating. Films undoubtedly cost money, but are about being creative with what you have. No one ever said "Sorry, you can't make that painting, your paint isn't good enough". If you have limitations, use them, your film won't be worse, just different. It's not going to be on an IMAX screen any time soon anyway.
But movies have been shot on children's toy cameras, 8mm, home video cameras, etc. Do the best with what you have, be creative, use ADR, make a silent movie if you have to. The Passion of Joan of Arc had no sound, Charlie Chaplin's The Kid had no sounds, Maya Deren's shorts had no sound.
While you make cheap movies save up for better gear. Of course 420 bucks isn't a lot for sound equipment, but neither is $10,000 for that matter. All the snarky people on here are missing the point of the first poster's question and making him feel like he isn't allowed to make movies or something. It's frustrating. Films undoubtedly cost money, but are about being creative with what you have. No one ever said "Sorry, you can't make that painting, your paint isn't good enough". If you have limitations, use them, your film won't be worse, just different. It's not going to be on an IMAX screen any time soon anyway.
rahulvictor
Active member
Summed up very nicely. I might add, a good example of a movie made with not so awesome equipment was "Festen" (or The Celebration) by Vinterberg. Part of the Dogme 95 movement so it was made with a small hand-held camera, won some awards at Cannes.
JordanBlock
Well-known member
No one here is saying "don't make your movie," or anything of the sort. The first two pages of the thread are filled with people giving recommendations in the neighborhood of Movie Dude's initial $370 package. The 'snark' is just people putting things in perspective. Four or five hundred bucks isn't much money to spend on this stuff, but it absolutely is enough to put together a very basic kit to get you started.
putdownripoff
New member
Every one of these threads seem to get heated so quickly. Half the time it's more theory than execution. Half the fun of starting out is trying gear and discovering what they are capable of. Anyways, here's a followup on my low budget shoot with a set up similar to movie dude's. Hope it's useful.
Here's what I ended up using for the shoot - a borrowed PD150 and an NTG-2 basic kit. To save time (and due to a dumb mistake of not getting a thread adapter for the mic stand), I had to go camera mounted for most of the shoot.
The NTG-2 has worked pretty well for my short. It definitely does not have clarity of the mid to higher range seinheissers, which I've used at my old job, but from my experience as a film-festival tech guy, I think the audio, even in its raw form, is more than on par with 90% of the shorts that are accepted.
Going camera mounted did not turn out half as bad as I had expected. There was very little handling noise, even when we were actively moving the camera. It wasn't ideal, and I'll be doing some editing/sweetening to clean it up, but it worked.
Using the rode indoors was OK. I had a fall back plan of running to guitar center to get a hypercardioid if it was needed, but it wasn't. I shot everything audible with mic distance in mind. No more than three feet away. All the close ups were set up so the mic is pointed directly at the speaker. Make sure to get multiple takes so if you had to splice dialogue together, it will match up.
As a video editor who's worked on commercial and educational productions, I've definitely heard my share of professional and unprofessional results. I can honestly say that even with my frowned upon setup, the results were pretty acceptable.
I'll be happy to put some clips online if anyone is interested in hearing for themselves.
Here's what I ended up using for the shoot - a borrowed PD150 and an NTG-2 basic kit. To save time (and due to a dumb mistake of not getting a thread adapter for the mic stand), I had to go camera mounted for most of the shoot.
The NTG-2 has worked pretty well for my short. It definitely does not have clarity of the mid to higher range seinheissers, which I've used at my old job, but from my experience as a film-festival tech guy, I think the audio, even in its raw form, is more than on par with 90% of the shorts that are accepted.
Going camera mounted did not turn out half as bad as I had expected. There was very little handling noise, even when we were actively moving the camera. It wasn't ideal, and I'll be doing some editing/sweetening to clean it up, but it worked.
Using the rode indoors was OK. I had a fall back plan of running to guitar center to get a hypercardioid if it was needed, but it wasn't. I shot everything audible with mic distance in mind. No more than three feet away. All the close ups were set up so the mic is pointed directly at the speaker. Make sure to get multiple takes so if you had to splice dialogue together, it will match up.
As a video editor who's worked on commercial and educational productions, I've definitely heard my share of professional and unprofessional results. I can honestly say that even with my frowned upon setup, the results were pretty acceptable.
I'll be happy to put some clips online if anyone is interested in hearing for themselves.
Movie_Dude_3
Well-known member
I'm definitely interested. My NTG-2 shows up on Wednesday, so I'll have something to put up soon too.
j1clark@ucsd.edu
Veteran
I'm studying Journalism at the same time and that's my fall back. Not much of a future to look forward to huh?
How to explain this... 'journalism' is not a 'fallback' for an income earning capacity... I don't know what the current job market is for 'journalism', outside of getting a Ph.D. or perhaps an MA, and teaching at either university, or in the case of MA, junior college... but in the 70's there were large number of 'journalism' majors who thought they'd be the next Woodward or Bernstein, but by the early 80's many were putting in resumes for programming... heck at least it was typing...
With the downsizing of news reportage, either print or broadcast, I can't see 'journalism' as a viable alternative for 'making movies'...
On the other hand, when I was young... just trying to get 'sound' on film was far beyond most student budgets... and further, getting filmstock through a camera that was actually powered by, perish the thought, electricity... was pretty pricy as well... even a handcranked Bolex was worth about 3 or 4 month's rent if one wanted to buy the camera... then there was editing film...
So, these days with DV+NLE one can get to the same level as student Bolex action for far less investment than ever before... just give up buying the latest i-Pod/i-Phone (and the ATT service...) and you'll have enough budget to at least buy some used equipment...
Movie_Dude_3
Well-known member
Thanks for the encouraging words. I've heard a good amount as to how dumb it is to pursue journalism as a career, enough to the point where it's not bringing me down to Earth, but pulling me down through the other side.
Not much of an iPhone person either. As long as the phone makes calls, I'm in a good place.