dantewaters
Well-known member
What could be improved here:
Too me it looked fine (except for the slight shadow under the neck)
Too me it looked fine (except for the slight shadow under the neck)
How would you light this scene
- Thread starter dantewaters
- Start date
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Ummm,
1. A large, soft source near him would be far more flattering.
2. I don't really think bald people need a hair light.
3. Even though it's not lighting related, a shirt that offers some contrast might be better
Again, 3-point lighting is a great starting point, but doesn't always make sense.
1. A large, soft source near him would be far more flattering.
2. I don't really think bald people need a hair light.
3. Even though it's not lighting related, a shirt that offers some contrast might be better
Again, 3-point lighting is a great starting point, but doesn't always make sense.
dantewaters
Well-known member
So what use the soft box instead?
Only reason I didn't is because I am unable to make the soft box daylight balanced.
Also I have no control over what he was putting on today (don't know who's coming in for the shoots).
Only reason I didn't is because I am unable to make the soft box daylight balanced.
Also I have no control over what he was putting on today (don't know who's coming in for the shoots).
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Well, you can only do what you can do. But lighting african american people with hard light is always going to be problematic.
Maybe you could use some diffusion by shooting through a 3x3 of 4x4 frame.
Maybe you could use some diffusion by shooting through a 3x3 of 4x4 frame.
dantewaters
Well-known member
Well I have spun I could use more and always stop down the light with some scrims, but I dunno I guess I could post some video on here later on tonight.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Well, diffusion is good, but the size of the source matters also. A sheet of toughspun 6" in front of a hard souce is a very different thing than a 3x3 of silent grid 4ft from the light and 2ft from the talent.
Also looks like your key and your hair light are on the same side of the talent. I thought they were usually opposite each other in traditional 3-point.
Also looks like your key and your hair light are on the same side of the talent. I thought they were usually opposite each other in traditional 3-point.
dantewaters
Well-known member
Well I guess I can use the soft box and change my color temp in the camera.
Either than or in post, I just don't want to do too much adjusting (since I already have few interviews as is).
Either than or in post, I just don't want to do too much adjusting (since I already have few interviews as is).
dantewaters
Well-known member
Could you send me a link to what the 4x4 looks like?
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
Ummm, not really. But I'll tell you how I made mine. 
I went to home depot and got some window screen frame materials. Four pieces. I also bought a package of 4 corners. The frame pieces come in 7ft lengths. I cut each piece into a 4ft and 3ft section. Then put the 4ft sections togther with the corners. Now I had a frame.
I went to the fabric store and looked at all the fabrics they had for curtains. I picked out a few different pieces that had different amounts of light it let through. I cut them into 5x5 pieces. I bought some of those little binder clips from the office supply store. And used those to hold the fabric on the frame.
So now I have a very lightweight diffusion panel for about $20 that breaks apart when I want it to, and can hold any type of diffusion, reflective material, or flag material I want. I clamp it in a c-stand to use. Easy as could be and makes a lovely, soft light.
I went to home depot and got some window screen frame materials. Four pieces. I also bought a package of 4 corners. The frame pieces come in 7ft lengths. I cut each piece into a 4ft and 3ft section. Then put the 4ft sections togther with the corners. Now I had a frame.
I went to the fabric store and looked at all the fabrics they had for curtains. I picked out a few different pieces that had different amounts of light it let through. I cut them into 5x5 pieces. I bought some of those little binder clips from the office supply store. And used those to hold the fabric on the frame.
So now I have a very lightweight diffusion panel for about $20 that breaks apart when I want it to, and can hold any type of diffusion, reflective material, or flag material I want. I clamp it in a c-stand to use. Easy as could be and makes a lovely, soft light.
sunporchmedia
Well-known member
Why did you need to balance to daylight? Is there an unseen window that can't be blocked? If you can block out the daylight you will have more control and options (plus more consistancy from shoot to shoot if you are shooting several individuals in the same environment on different days.
It's very hard to generalize about African American skin. This gentleman looks fairly light skinned, and I don't see a problem with the hard light on him. In fact, hard light in portraiture is an underappreciated, and largely lost art.
I also don't mind the backlight (direction or intensity)...if it was a conscious choice. It looks like it's not too terribly "hot". But with bald talent you can pinch down the top barn door to keep it on their shoulders and off the top of their head. Also, it looks like you might have some real risk of flare in your camera lens from your backlight. You should have a flag set up above the camera lens, or at least work the barn door of the backlight to keep it out of the lens. If you put the backlight opposite the key light you could get away with less fill. It's an aesthetic choice.
Using the flex-fill for fill light like you did is good...helps avoid double shadows by keeping the fill "source" big. But having it that far around to the side could cause double shadows to show anyway...that's probably what's happening under the chin. Try bringing the reflector more around to the front.
Also, are this talent looking toward the camera or is it an interview setup? That has a significant impact on the direction of the light sources.
It's very hard to generalize about African American skin. This gentleman looks fairly light skinned, and I don't see a problem with the hard light on him. In fact, hard light in portraiture is an underappreciated, and largely lost art.
I also don't mind the backlight (direction or intensity)...if it was a conscious choice. It looks like it's not too terribly "hot". But with bald talent you can pinch down the top barn door to keep it on their shoulders and off the top of their head. Also, it looks like you might have some real risk of flare in your camera lens from your backlight. You should have a flag set up above the camera lens, or at least work the barn door of the backlight to keep it out of the lens. If you put the backlight opposite the key light you could get away with less fill. It's an aesthetic choice.
Using the flex-fill for fill light like you did is good...helps avoid double shadows by keeping the fill "source" big. But having it that far around to the side could cause double shadows to show anyway...that's probably what's happening under the chin. Try bringing the reflector more around to the front.
Also, are this talent looking toward the camera or is it an interview setup? That has a significant impact on the direction of the light sources.
PerroneFord
Deals in Lead
This gentleman is not that fair skinned. I have a fair bit of experience with african american skin. Look at his hands and the top of his left arm to get a true idea.
I do agree that using hard sources is a bit of a lost art, and can be done to look very nice, but usually people who are doing that have worked their craft for a while.
The key light here is also pretty frontal. Looks like you are somewhat limited by the narrowness of the space. You could cross bounce the key maybe but that would be a bit more complicated.
I guess since my head is shaved, I am somewhat tuned in on not wanting a big shiny spot up there on camera! A soft kiss of light is ok, but that hairlight seems to be reading as hot as the key. And it's quite broad too.
Just my thoughts.
Look at his hands and the top of his left arm to get a true idea.I do agree that using hard sources is a bit of a lost art, and can be done to look very nice, but usually people who are doing that have worked their craft for a while.
The key light here is also pretty frontal. Looks like you are somewhat limited by the narrowness of the space. You could cross bounce the key maybe but that would be a bit more complicated.
I guess since my head is shaved, I am somewhat tuned in on not wanting a big shiny spot up there on camera! A soft kiss of light is ok, but that hairlight seems to be reading as hot as the key. And it's quite broad too.
Just my thoughts.
Rippie
Veteran
What could be improved here:
Too me it looked fine (except for the slight shadow under the neck)
1. Key is a little too high it looks like.
2. your reflector needs to come up in the air vertical, and dont use the silver side in that situation, use the white.
3. your source isn't diffused enough. Is that opal? Put a softbox on him, or aim the light away and bounce it into him.
4. the key is too frontal, walk it to the side a little more to create a little more modeling. Also use a flag or anything to flag off the keylight from the backwall.
5. Your hairlight is on the wrong side.
6. A curtain with that many folds (in my opinion) is going to look very amaturish. Start it off totally flat, and take a few c-47's and create "subtle" waves in it.
And lastly because im an audio guy
..HIDE THAT MIC! Or seeing your framing there you could put it lower just out of frame.
And the right way to do it, would be use in this situation a hyper cardoid boom (schoeps, mkh50..etc)
Jeff Anderson
Custom Title!
Agree with all of the above. For more on using the bounce as a key (I think thats what some of you were talking about at least) check this out - beyond three point lighting shows the technique rather well if you need some pointers. The rest of the tutorials are pretty good too though. But yeah Id go soft as you can get on the key and probably lose the hairlight or at least knock it off the top of his head. Maybe more of an edge light.
Awesome idea on the drapes and c47's rippie. I usually just shooting against drapes all together but I may have to try that. Seems like you could get some interesting shapes like that...
Awesome idea on the drapes and c47's rippie. I usually just shooting against drapes all together but I may have to try that. Seems like you could get some interesting shapes like that...
Erik Naso
Veteran
I do like a back light since the background is black. It will pull him away from the curtain a little. Try molding the light from back left so a little light hits the head and shoulder. Lighting is so personal. You just have to keep trying diffrest setups for each person. One size fits all will not work very well. Get some foam core and bounce off it for that soft light look. Works great.
Hunter Hampton
Carbonite Member
One question: 20 answers! This is just off the top of my head, you can light anyway you want:
Dark skin can be difficult to light. When lighting for darker skin (and especially if they are bald!) Hard lights cause specular highlight problems, there will be pure white circles reflecting from their skin.
Bald black men look great lighted with large soft lights, get a large 4 bank kino almost split light style (keep it from catching in the eyes as it might look odd) just out of frame camera right (or shoot your tungsten through a large silk) You can fill with a white foam board just out of frame camera left. Put a small low wattage light as a fake key light to just catch in the eyes (so you have a specular highlight in the eyes) Throw a fun color gel on your backlight and dont point it at his head as it will make an ugly highlight, but shoot it at his left shoulder. Just have fun with it.
First thing I would do though: Change his shirt to a darker color, maybe grey? White shirts are bad for the camera as it is, it doesnt make it any easier when you have to expose for someone with dark skin who is wearing a white shirt.
Dark skin can be difficult to light. When lighting for darker skin (and especially if they are bald!) Hard lights cause specular highlight problems, there will be pure white circles reflecting from their skin.
Bald black men look great lighted with large soft lights, get a large 4 bank kino almost split light style (keep it from catching in the eyes as it might look odd) just out of frame camera right (or shoot your tungsten through a large silk) You can fill with a white foam board just out of frame camera left. Put a small low wattage light as a fake key light to just catch in the eyes (so you have a specular highlight in the eyes) Throw a fun color gel on your backlight and dont point it at his head as it will make an ugly highlight, but shoot it at his left shoulder. Just have fun with it.
First thing I would do though: Change his shirt to a darker color, maybe grey? White shirts are bad for the camera as it is, it doesnt make it any easier when you have to expose for someone with dark skin who is wearing a white shirt.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
I would agree when people are wearing white shirts thats a nightmare for video/film, but of course there are ways to work around it when you have to. 1/2 scrims can help and you can also gel the light halfway down so the face comes out ungelled but the white shirt takes on a tint of some kind. Probably other methods too.
RyanT
Veteran
Since he's wearing a white shirt I would consider flagging the key off his chest, a wardrobe change as well wouldn't be a bad thing.
Definitely white side on the reflector. I only use the silver side when I'm shooting it through diffusion outside, or maybe on really really overcast days. Otherwise it's a bit too hard for this use.
I also don't know how much space you have in that room, but back the talent away from the background as much as possible. You still don't want to shoot him with a wide lens, but try and find a nice compromise.
Definitely white side on the reflector. I only use the silver side when I'm shooting it through diffusion outside, or maybe on really really overcast days. Otherwise it's a bit too hard for this use.
I also don't know how much space you have in that room, but back the talent away from the background as much as possible. You still don't want to shoot him with a wide lens, but try and find a nice compromise.