How would you do it?

J

jonaswray

Member
ok, the senario is the following. I'm going to shoot in a small warehouse type location and I have a Azden SGM-1X and when I shoot there in the past the audio came out really muffled/echoeeee. This is some Martial Arts stuff and the fighters are usually moving around so its really hard to keep the mic near them all the time. Using a lav would be bad because of the pounding on the chest and stuff. I'm looking at buying a new boom mic to improve on that part and would like to keep it around $400. What would some of you recommend and why? Also, any ideas or tricks on making my audio sound better in this situation? Any good resources on audio like training or tutorials would be appreciated because on a scale of 1-10 my audio has been a 3.

Thanks in advance
 
You might try to put up some sound deadening material, like blankets, or acoustic tile where you can. That should help with some of the echo.

For 4 hundred, you might look at the AT 4073.

The best overall book on sound I've read is Jay Rose's Producing Great Sound for Digital Video.

Hope that helps
 
I agree with the sound deadening material. Controlling your ambient noise and reflective sound is going to be key. Regarding the 4073, I don't know. It's a nice little shotgun and certainly FAR better than what your using now, but you might want to go with a hyper like the Oktava, that's what I would try first.

Matt
 
To add to this, if the Azden is your only mic and you have a mic budget of $400 I would try and stretch another $80 and get a AT897 and an Oktava MK102. This will give you decent mics in both a short shotgun and a hyper. Yes the 4073 is better than the 897 but then you don't get a decent hyper which you really do want for interior spaces - especially echo-prone ones. If you have these two mics and some ancillary gear (dead cat, boom, good cables) and your sound is still a 3, I guarantee it is not the fault of your mics. Once you are getting a consistent sound quality around 8, then start looking at a better shotgun as you will then be able to use it to its potential and you're realize the benefits of having it.

For sound deadening material, go to Home Depot and pick up a bunch of moving blankets (they're like $10-$20 each). Figure out a way to rig them up (stands, 2x4s, whatever). Once they're up, position your mic as you want it and have a guy hit a pad so that you get a good crack. Listen for the reverberations and try to position the blankets to cut them as much as possible. Also don't completely discount foley. Most "hits" you hear in movies are faked and they don't have to sound like a bad 70's Hong Kong flick (love them as I do). Go for the cleanest sound you can. Also I would split the mic into two channels one softer than the other. Have one of your guys kiap/yell (assuming they do when fighting) and set the softer channel to that.

Best of luck to you.

Matt
 
Is this narrative or are you shooting a training session etc? If real life, maybe some sort of parabolic might enable you to get the sound from a distance? Don't know, I don't know much about parabolics. If doing narrative, I'd just foley it.

Aaron
 
I have a pretty good Parabolic mic, that I've used for surveillance and they're a ***** to record and not natural sounding at all. Now granted, I don't have a huge NFL one, but I also don't have a cheap one either. I'd stick with conventional mics as I said above.

Matt
 
Thanks everyone for the great help. I will take a look at those blankets at Home Depot they sound like it could make a big difference. I think for me after reading more on the subject the AT4073A seems to be the best choice. Do you guys know where to get a deal on this mic. I have seen it around for about $550. I'll take a look at that book too. I really need to improve on my techniques. Thanks again for all the help
 
Yes, or B&H. But I still think you'll be better off with a hyper, at least in this scenario. Shotguns are really good for exteriors but leave a lot to be desire indoors, especially were reverberation is an issue...

Matt
 
FWIW jonaswray, despite being a musician for most of my life, audio reproduction for film and video is still pretty new to me. Guys like MattC and MattinSTL have a lot more experience. Good advice can be hard to come by, but you get it here. I'd look into his suggestion if I were you.
 
I have done martial arts sound recording before. What I did was hang a couple of hypers off the ceiling (big warehouse type place also). This would work with shotguns also but as stated before you will get some nasty colored reverb. Pad down what you can and get the mics in as close as possible.

Try renting some mics for the day. I actually would avoid the AT mics in this situation because the line gradient style they use is known for emphasizing reverb even worse then a normal shotgun.

good luck
 
I think I totally misunderstood what you guys were telling me before. I'm sorry, this is all new to me.
Most of the stuff that I'm going to shoot for now is going to be at that location. I think if I get 2 hypers for now it might work best. In a few months I will be able to afford a Shotgun for other projects outside and so on. Now my question is the Oktava MK-102 is hard to find. Does anybody have an idea where to get them? Should I look at another brand that might be equal or better then the Oktava MK-102? I've looked everywhere and nothing... Thanks again
 
I don't own one, but my understanding is that they are a rather unique mic regarding the price to value ratio. They are quite a bargain for what you get; moreso than any other hyper.

I've heard people mention getting them at guitar center.
 
I don't know of another hyper that will give you that much bang for your buck. I would also order through the Sound Room (that's where mine came from) as they seem to enforce their own quality control (although they could be full of it, who knows). But you could easily get two of them within your budget. AT makes a nice hyper as well, but it's twice the money and to be honest, I like my Oktava better. Also, even though you might not use it for this application, for future applications make sure you get a GOOD shockmount (again, they are very sensitive mics).
 
I will go to Guitar Center and see if they have it. So, because of the price/quality I should really look for the Oktava then?

Hey Wabbit, since you have shot stuff like this before do you have any other suggestions that might come handy? Anything will be helpful... Thanks again
 
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