How wide a lens to get this shot?

S

Soldier

Well-known member
I want to get a two shot in a moving vehicle on an upcoming short. If I mount the car on the bonnet, how wide a lens do you think I would need a similar framing to the screengrab attached. I'm shooting with the GH2 (if it's ever released, GH13, if it's not) and I thought about getting the panasonic 14mm f/2.5 pancake. My next widest lens is a 24mm, f/2, Nikkor, which I don't think is quite wide enough.

twoshotcar.jpg

Thanks
 
There's a shot I plan on that calls for me in the back of a truck bed, framing a girl character in the passenger seat at an angle, with her looking sideways towards the driver. From just doing tests by sitting in the backseat of a van, it seems that 24mm is perfect for the shot I'm trying to do. But I never really know any situation for sure, so I'd want to have a lens with a bit of freedom in the range (especially if it was outdoors and I didn't need a prime). At least in the Canon range, there's a 15-85 IS 3.5-5.6 that'd look very appealing to me in this situation, according to DP, that lens is also one of the most incredibly sharp around at any range, especially at the wide angle ranges and even in the corners and mid frame - literally no softness or fringes whatsoever. It's one of my dream lenses anyway - manual focus override, non-rotating lens barrel, 4-stops of IS, Zeiss-level sharpness and lack of aberration, softness, or fringing, 72mm filter diamter, ect ect - the $700 price tag is a bit of a bummer though.

But since your shooting GH, I'm not sure what to recommend...Nikon's wide angle range lenses really seem to be prone to extreme distortion and bad quality according to the chart tests on DP, but if you simply need the focal length, I wouldn't rule some of them out. Again, I really would consider a lens that has a range though, like the Canon 15-85, if you look at that lens on DP, you'd think it was a Zeiss lens because it's so incredibly sharp at every point and focal length - and having that much of a freedom range along with that would be worth it. Now, if you strictly need a prime, there are some wide angle primes too, but it seems that you have to truly stop them down to crazy points to get the same sharpness the 15-85 simply has at 3.5. I guess it's really no use to keep harking on about that lens unless you're fine with adapters, but it's really a good lens from all points, it seems, and it'd at least be the type of lens that if 15mm was too wide, you could zoom in to say 18mm, or even 20mm, all with great results. You could even just rent this lens for a day for like $30!

If you figure out exactly what focal length you need to the point you'd rather use a prime, I wouldn't rule out looking renting a Zeiss wide angle if you can use it with your camera, they're not much to rent for a day and I saw this article once where someone was using something crazy like a Zeiss 8mm, yet the distortion of the room was so entirely cinematic and revolutional, yet it showed a Nikon next to it that looked like a complete fish-eye toy in the distortion! Since using crop DSLR's requires wider angles, Zeiss may be able to provide the wider angle at less of a fish-eye look, which may be appealing to your production. Something maybe to look into. And lastly, I'm honestly not sure about the 14mm pancake, I wish there was a quality test on DP. If you use wide angle alot, it could be a good purchase, but $400 is a little steep if you're not renting. 2.5 isn't such a useful aperture, and since it's a prime, it's only one focal length. Lol, you could always try it and see if you like it, then return it I guess!

P.S. - http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-H-F...V4/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1294731505&sr=8-13http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-H-F...V4/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1294731505&sr=8-13

That honestly looks like a much better buy, it has a decent range, 14-45, good for your purpose, and an aperture of 3.5 is hardly different from 2.5...and this lens is even a bit cheaper! Has IS too, which may be good when mounting it to a truck!
 
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The GH2 is a 4/3" sensor, so if using 4/3" as the sensor size, I would use an 18mm lens.

I figure I could get the camera about 6' away from the actors on the hood of the car. The example image you supplied looks like there is about a 6' wide distance on the axis of the actors. An 18mm lens, 6' away from talent on a 4/3" sensor should give you a horizontal FoV of 5.5'. A 14mm lens will give you a much wider FoV at something around 7' 4" in image width at the plane of talent. I don't know what kind of car they are in, but most sedan or small car (like the rental car Toyota Corolla I currently have :( ) is only about 5' 5" from wall to wall... Thus the 18mm will get you wall to wall action. The 14mm should get you about a foot further on each side, a much larger frame than the example you gave.

However, it should be noted that you are working in a very close and wide situation... thus if you cannot mount the camera 6' away from talent, you'll need to adjust the focal length with the camera position. If you must mount the camera 5' away from talent (for example), the 18mm will not cover what you want; it will fall short in the high 4'8' range. However your 14mm will now have a horizontal FoV of 6'... right in the ballpark of where you want. Same goes if you mount the camera at 4' or 7'. For instance, if the camera was 7' from the actors, you'd get a 6' horizontal FoV at a 20mm... which is again, in the range you're looking for, in regards to framing the actors and car. It just depends on the placement of the camera, which ultimately depends on how you rig it to the car.

Also remember, if you have options to film them close with a wide lens or film them from further with a less wide lens, that perspective is a creative option we ought to not forget about. Getting the furthest away from them on a car rig, will require a longer lens and will slightly compress the background (also might emphasis bumps in the road) while a wider lens closer to the talent will show more background, however might start to give funky distortion or funny images because of how wide it is. Some things to think about.

Hope that helps.


4'?
b---car-mount-side-.jpg


5'?
front-rig.jpg


7'?
5616mil.jpg
 
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You've certainly given me something to think about. I agree it would be nice to have a zoom, but really what I'm after is a fast wide angle lens - somewhere between 24 and 30mm in 35mm equiv. f/2.5 is about as slow as I want to go. I have a budget of course!!!

As far as rentals go... there isn't a whole lot around these parts, unfortunately or I would definitely think about renting one. I had thought about maybe going for the 20mm 1.7, because of it's speed, but on a 4/3 sensor, I don't think it will be quite wide enough for my needs..... Maybe I should go for the oly 14-54 or the pana 14-45???? hmmm but they're both slower...
 
Hey Ryan, Thanks for those shots. I've got a pretty good idea about how to go about it now. Thanks. I'm just hoping the GH sensor will be solid enough and not jello out on me.
 
I love the Toland app for the iPhone. For the gh1/2 the 14mm would work giving a fov of about 6' x 4' at 6' distance. The 24mm would require about 10 feet to get the required fov.
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I love the Toland app for the iPhone. For the gh1/2 the 14mm would work giving a fov of about 6' x 4' at 6' distance. The 24mm would require about 10 feet to get the required fov.
Click to expand...

I used another FoV calc and got differently. The 14mm field of view 6' away said 7'4"....hmmm. The sensor size I used was 'olympus 4/3'... was that not the right one?
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
I used another FoV calc and got differently. The 14mm field of view 6' away said 7'4"....hmmm. The sensor size I used was 'olympus 4/3'... was that not the right one?
Click to expand...

Yes, I was a bit 'casual', posting on my iPad. So, the Toland app, for a GH-1 camera, using a 14mm (the app has a lens selection for the 14-140mm lens), the calculator produces:

subject distance: 6'
Height of FoV: 4'2"
Width of FoV: 7'5".

I'd have to email the support address to see if they have the 'camera' details that are used to calculate.
 
Soldier said:
You've certainly given me something to think about. I agree it would be nice to have a zoom, but really what I'm after is a fast wide angle lens - somewhere between 24 and 30mm in 35mm equiv. f/2.5 is about as slow as I want to go. I have a budget of course!!!

As far as rentals go... there isn't a whole lot around these parts, unfortunately or I would definitely think about renting one. I had thought about maybe going for the 20mm 1.7, because of it's speed, but on a 4/3 sensor, I don't think it will be quite wide enough for my needs..... Maybe I should go for the oly 14-54 or the pana 14-45???? hmmm but they're both slower...
Click to expand...

So when you say equiv. do you mean Full Frame 35mm equiv.? Then the crop is definitely 2x... If you're referring to APS-C/S35 then the crop is more like 1.4x and the 20mm 1.7 would suffice.

And 14mm would have a wider FOV than the frame you used as an example.
 
Pietro Impagliazzo said:
So when you say equiv. do you mean Full Frame 35mm equiv.? Then the crop is definitely 2x... If you're referring to APS-C/S35 then the crop is more like 1.4x and the 20mm 1.7 would suffice.

And 14mm would have a wider FOV than the frame you used as an example.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I meant FF 35mm equivalent. I figure Ryan was right when he said about 18mm. I could use the 14mm and punch in a little bit.
 
Since (I guess) this lens is design for FF you could enconter some distortion. Hopefully the distortion is only at the corners (that are largely out of the frame), I'd like for some online review of that lens.
 
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