how to triage this situation?

P

powerdog

Veteran
Given that I have a very low budget, very little shooting time, and just me to haul and set up equipment....

I have to shoot someone talking to camera in a very reverberant environment: a science lab.

I have both a shotgun and a wireless lav. I also have 2 moving blankets...probably far less than the size of lab would require.

Given all this, which mike is the better bet? (I'm thinking the lav, as I may have to include a handheld prop in the shot.) Should I bring tape and hang the blankets on the wall behind me?

Or...should I ask for some cooperation, and see if the scientist's assistants can bring in some nice upholstered furniture before the shoot?

Thanks!

PS. I've also been thinking about some fiberglass panels at Home Depot. Bulky, but at least light weight...if they'd do any good.
 
If you are using a handheld as a prop the I'd USE the handheld... you could use the lav also... but if you're talking about an ENG handheld then it will control the room reverb more then anything else... but yeah the lav should also be decent.
 
blankets = great idea, but try pick a good spot in the room where you can lock out the reverb more effectively with them. Jay Rose seems to like fibreglass panels, but I reckon blankets are easier. Dont tape them to a wall, hang em between C-stands. DONT shoot flat against a wall if the room is square, try make the echoes have to travel and bounce alot before they get back to your mic.

Here are some options:


1) set up the boom on a mic stand and position it as close as possible to subject. frame for less headroom if you have to. AND use the lav on the subject.

shotguns dont do well with reverb, but its worth a shot, and this way you dont have to have anyone hold it for you, and the lav is there anyway (options)

2) if you can have a handheld, rent an RE50 and see how it sounds. They are great mics.

3) go lav on one track and shotgun on camera on the other track. I think this is the worst option, but it will do the job well if your lav is a good one (the shotgun will just cover for dropouts)

Ultimately, I guess a hyper-card mic with the lav would be the best for a double mic'ing method.

Just my 5cents...
 
I'm sorry, Matt, I was very dumb. I just meant that he's going to hold an object (not a mic), so it's got to be waist-up and I can't get a shotgun very close.

Any of the other things worth doing? I've got one try, so I have to make it work.

Thanks!
 
Then use one of the ways i suggested, I guess. Lav is going to end up being your main channel though, Im sure.
 
i've had tremendous results using moving blankets and even sleeping bags.

i worked on a short a few weeks ago where we had to do a very important scene in a pretty small home bathroom.

i put a pillow in the sink (the sink was out of shot) and moving blankets/comforters/sleeping bags hung over the shower rod (out of frame) and i even used gaff tape to hold up a few large/puffy towels to the hard tile anywhere i could and still remain out of shot.

by the time i was done that bathroom sounded really sweet.

btw, i used an oktava mk-012 mic and i had it rigged with a bogen super clamp to the shower curtain rod + a bogen flexible arm so the mic was above the talent just out of sight and i sat out in the hallway with my sd-302 mixer and only the dp and the talent were in the bathroom.

we ran the video feed out into the hall as well so we could pretty much close the door almost all the way.

if i were using my sennheiser 416 shotgun i don't think the sound would have been so perfect.

i have just begun using the oktava mk-012 but since i started i haven't had a need to use the 416 a single time.

i really love the oktava. i got it with all three capsules but so far i have only used the hypercardioid.

matthew
 
Matthew, I think I'd do pretty well in a small space like a bathroom, but I'm shooting in a lab that's at least 1K x 1K feet. I think my blankets are a drop in the ocean. But I have an idea I"m going to put up a separate post about.
 
I'll play "producer" here.....

Just loop it...

Kidding kidding. I'd use a close up dynamic mic. It won't pick up a lot of that crap.
 
All handheld ENG mics are dynamic. RE50 is universally the most common... not very sensitive at all... ignores background really well... RE50ndb hears a little better... Beyer M58 is great at ignoring background sounds, but doesn't sound as full and natural as the AKG D230, which is very full and natural sounding, plus the D230 strikes a great balance of all the qualities that make an ENG mic valuable. If you plan to use the mic in harsh conditions... or just want a hammer of a mic that you can always count on no matter what... then go with one of the RE50 models.
 
Matt, when you say "harsh" do you mean physically -- like in a hurricane -- or harsh as in acoustically poor locations?

Also, is there any reason you can attach them to a boom? Would just above the frame be too far from mouth?
 
Every situation is different, but if it was me I would try the lav first, and only fool with the other stuff if a lav didn't work.

1) simple is best
2) close to the source is best
3) modifying room acoustics significantly is hard to do without lots of experience, time, and tools
4) Instead of a blanket against a wall, you could try it just off-cam on a stand if you have a primary echo from one diretcion.
5) Giving inexperienced talent a handheld mic will present its own challenges in a number of different ways.
 
Galt, #3 is the key. A very large room, one person to do everything (me), limited time, and a small car = little possibility of accomplishing much with acoustics.
 
ENG stick mics need to be within a foot of the mouth (max) for reasonable sound. Watch the news and look where the mic head is for the field reporters... and when they ask somebody a question notice that they shove the mic in the person's face. Dynamics aren't sensitive so they must be close... booming would probably not work worth a poop.

I meant that the RE50 is nearly indestructable. It's the mic you saw 99% of reporters using in any newscast ever... including hurricane coverage, etc. I don't think the RE50 sounds that great. I think the D230 is a much better sounding mic and if you only buy one dynamic eng mic I'd probably get the AKG... but I ended up getting an RE50 just because it's THE news mic. It's the one you see so I got one for that reason alone.
 
So is it reasonable to assume:

1. Dynamic mic within a foot of mouth.
2. My ME66/E6 on a boom, just above head.
3. Record same guy in same echo-y room.
4. I hear less echo from #1?

I should add: the ultimate destination for these video clips is the web, so sound quality is only fair anyway. But the echo is a problem.
 
The Sennheiser MD46 is a better ENG mic than the EV RE50 as well in my opinion. Northersound.net has them for a good price. I havent compared the D230 to it yet, but I have not seen that mic in the field.
 
I'd be willing so say you should go with Marquee's advice and give that Sennheiser a try. The gist is that the RE50 is in NO WAY flattering to voice... it is a mic for information gathering under any conditions... be it rain, snow, high wind, etc. The other eng mics I mentioned have smoother sound... with the D230 being the most natural sounding of the ones I mentioned. I've also heard good things about the MD46, but I have no personal experience with that mic.

One thing to be sure of... when I say the mic needs to be within a foot of the mouth I MEAN that... the pickup on these mics falls off REALLY fast. It's not like you're going to be able to boom with one.

EDIT: Okay I did a little experiment. I think I'd DUMP THE IDEA OF AN ENG STICK MIC UNLESS YOU CAN PRACTICALLY EAT THE MIC by having it within 6" of the speaker's mouth. Ever see a newscast where the reporter is almost eating the mic? Well in a really reverberrent space that's what you'd have to do. I think your best option will be to lav your speaker as close as you can get to the mouth. A hidden lav like a B6 should be the best case option to minimize reverb as much as possible... if that is not available then my next best suggestion would be... whatta' ya' know... the best hyper-cardioid you can get. SOUND CLIPS
 
As in most of life, there's always a trade-off, huh?

So, to get the lav as close to mouth as possible, not sure where I'd hide it in a waist-up shot of a guy facing/talking to camera.

I would have just put it high on the shirt. Even then, with normal anatomy, there's a front/back distance of a few inches, but not sure what you'd do other than strap a pillow to the chest.
 
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