How to reduce the depth of field ?
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monkeyking
Well-known member
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
If I framed a head shot on the longest end of the lens wide open, and framed the same sized headshot using a tele extender also wide open but further away, would the background appear even less in focus?
If I framed a head shot on the longest end of the lens wide open, and framed the same sized headshot using a tele extender also wide open but further away, would the background appear even less in focus?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
Yes and no. Technically it would be, but the tele-extender version would LOOK like it had shallower DOF. The APPEARANCE of shallower DOF would definitely be noticeable in the tele-extender version.
Yes and no. Technically it would be, but the tele-extender version would LOOK like it had shallower DOF. The APPEARANCE of shallower DOF would definitely be noticeable in the tele-extender version.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
Perspective changes at both ends of the spectrum. Wide angles exaggerate distances, and can be very un-flattering as taubkin said. Telephoto flattens everything, which can be a little un-flattering, but it can also be quite useful (you can make a scene look more dangerous than it really is, for example, like in "El Mariachi" when Carlos rode that rig in front of the bus... it looked like the bus almost hit him, but in reality he was quite a ways away from the bus, and they used a long telephoto to optically flatten the distance between them.)
Perspective changes at both ends of the spectrum. Wide angles exaggerate distances, and can be very un-flattering as taubkin said. Telephoto flattens everything, which can be a little un-flattering, but it can also be quite useful (you can make a scene look more dangerous than it really is, for example, like in "El Mariachi" when Carlos rode that rig in front of the bus... it looked like the bus almost hit him, but in reality he was quite a ways away from the bus, and they used a long telephoto to optically flatten the distance between them.)
taubkin
Veteran
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
True barry. Again, portrature photography works in the telephoto area, like 80-120mm. And definately not with wide angles. I wouldn't frame a CU of my leading actress - hottie with the DVX's 30mm for all the shallow DOF in the world. Sometimes we just got to give it up and say, hey it's a 1/3" CCD DV camcorder. What the heck, let's all live with it.
I gotta say that on the bright side, for outputting for video, I never lost a shot for focus issues, and I am not that quick on the rings...
Now I never understand how can shotting through a running frost CD can be better and easier than shotting through a regular ground glass? If getting upside-down images is not a problem, making a mini35 adapter should be a piece of cake, no?
True barry. Again, portrature photography works in the telephoto area, like 80-120mm. And definately not with wide angles. I wouldn't frame a CU of my leading actress - hottie with the DVX's 30mm for all the shallow DOF in the world. Sometimes we just got to give it up and say, hey it's a 1/3" CCD DV camcorder. What the heck, let's all live with it.
I gotta say that on the bright side, for outputting for video, I never lost a shot for focus issues, and I am not that quick on the rings...
Now I never understand how can shotting through a running frost CD can be better and easier than shotting through a regular ground glass? If getting upside-down images is not a problem, making a mini35 adapter should be a piece of cake, no?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
It does, and it doesn't, depending on the aperture you use. Mostly it makes things deeper, not more shallow.
It does, and it doesn't, depending on the aperture you use. Mostly it makes things deeper, not more shallow.
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
"Perspective changes at both ends of the spectrum. Wide angles exaggerate distances, and can be very un-flattering as taubkin said. Telephoto flattens everything, which can be a little un-flattering, but it can also be quite useful"
..barry, you brought up a point here which i consitantly forget about during these discussions on DOF. the more tele you are,, the flatter the image gets. ..this is kinda cool somtimes cause you can make it look like objects are very close but only one of them is in focus.. but the more wide angle,, the more that relative distance is apparent/ exaggerated. in terms of DOF and which method you use. you also have to consider this effect on the image. using selective focus isnt always about just blurring the background or surroundig objects. .. its also about making the subject stand out from the background so that your eyes are drawn to it.. you create dimension and depth to the image.. being very close to get shallow DOF resluts in the subject "popping" out from the background.. vs using the tele method (still from as close as you can be) will not "pop" the subject out as much.. but as you perfectly pointed out.. that can be used for alot of good things..
Just last week i used a full tele shot with shallow DOF for a quick shot where a guy gets hit in the face.. i stood on the punch angle line a ways back, and went all out tele.. then when the fist came at the face, and the actor spun his head, it looked like they were right together, and he was getting hit due to the spatial flattening, vs if i was using a wider lense.. you woudve noticed the 6 inch gap between the fist and the face when the punch came by. shooting either way i couldve had a blurred background with an apparent shallow DOF .
also i recently used the tele method to make a downtown city street appear more busy by shooting tele which compressed the space, and maed the people look closer together around the subject in focus vs shooting wide angle you could tell the crown was a short distance away on either side.
so both methods have their own "side effect" which also effects the image.. alot of times the choice on which one to use could fall on which side effect you want as well. you can compress distance with tele or exaggerate it with short range focusing.
ohh the possibilities!
"Perspective changes at both ends of the spectrum. Wide angles exaggerate distances, and can be very un-flattering as taubkin said. Telephoto flattens everything, which can be a little un-flattering, but it can also be quite useful"
..barry, you brought up a point here which i consitantly forget about during these discussions on DOF. the more tele you are,, the flatter the image gets. ..this is kinda cool somtimes cause you can make it look like objects are very close but only one of them is in focus.. but the more wide angle,, the more that relative distance is apparent/ exaggerated. in terms of DOF and which method you use. you also have to consider this effect on the image. using selective focus isnt always about just blurring the background or surroundig objects. .. its also about making the subject stand out from the background so that your eyes are drawn to it.. you create dimension and depth to the image.. being very close to get shallow DOF resluts in the subject "popping" out from the background.. vs using the tele method (still from as close as you can be) will not "pop" the subject out as much.. but as you perfectly pointed out.. that can be used for alot of good things..
Just last week i used a full tele shot with shallow DOF for a quick shot where a guy gets hit in the face.. i stood on the punch angle line a ways back, and went all out tele.. then when the fist came at the face, and the actor spun his head, it looked like they were right together, and he was getting hit due to the spatial flattening, vs if i was using a wider lense.. you woudve noticed the 6 inch gap between the fist and the face when the punch came by. shooting either way i couldve had a blurred background with an apparent shallow DOF .
also i recently used the tele method to make a downtown city street appear more busy by shooting tele which compressed the space, and maed the people look closer together around the subject in focus vs shooting wide angle you could tell the crown was a short distance away on either side.
so both methods have their own "side effect" which also effects the image.. alot of times the choice on which one to use could fall on which side effect you want as well. you can compress distance with tele or exaggerate it with short range focusing.
ohh the possibilities!
monkeyking
Well-known member
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
If I framed a head shot on the longest end of the lens wide open, and framed the same sized headshot using a tele extender also wide open but further away, would the background appear even less in focus?
If I framed a head shot on the longest end of the lens wide open, and framed the same sized headshot using a tele extender also wide open but further away, would the background appear even less in focus?
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: How to reduce the depth of field ?
Yes, the tele-extender version would make the background look even more out of focus.
Yes, the tele-extender version would make the background look even more out of focus.