How to record foley FX?

[Zak Forsman]

Say I have a dialogue scene in which one character puts a book down on the table. And the production track of that action is off-axis and needs to be replaced. Is it typical to record these in stereo? Or mono? Or would the stereo vs mono question be unique to each sound one intends to foley?

 

[bruceallen]

Mono, ideally with the same mic as the one you used on the shoot. (EDIT: or not the same mic it appears... I was getting confused with ze ADR

Usually it's done in a dead space (foley stage), and the sound re-recording mixer will pan it to the right spot (which quite possibly could just be center speaker) and add reverb afterwards.

Other way to do it is to shoot in a similar acoustic space in terms of reverb (but really quiet), have the mic a similar distance, except pointing at the book this time.

Is the book slam happening to the far side - and is meant to be a sound effect coming from the side - or is it near the center, eg near the character who is speaking? How loud is it?

Damn it - need to give you my sound equipment back! Um, I actually have it with me at work if you can make it over to the Westside.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Paul F]

The Foley sessions I have watched for major features did all recording in mono. They do not use a production microphone. They spend a lot of time placing the mic (distance and position) to get the sound they are looking for. The stage is quite big, but relatively dead.

 

[Noiz2]

I've worked on four Foley stages. And BTW as Paul correctly spelled it it's capitalized.

They have ranged in size from quite small as in 10X10 to the size of a small warehouse. None of them used the production mic or even one similar. Most used a large diaphragm condenser.

Foley pretty much always follows dialog so it's going to end up in the center speaker. I have yet to see Foley recorded in stereo.

However a sound like the book down would also often be covered by FX. Some places will refer to this as WIFO (WIld FOley) because it's not done in sync and so isn't Foley but is the kind of sounds that would be commonly done by Foley. If that makes any sense.

Personally I would probably set up in a similar space with the prop and record a bunch of book downs and slams. It should cut in pretty easily.

 

[bruceallen]

Thanks for the illuminating answers, Noiz!

I've worked on four Foley stages. And BTW as Paul correctly spelled it it's capitalized.

They have ranged in size from quite small as in 10X10 to the size of a small warehouse. None of them used the production mic or even one similar. Most used a large diaphragm condenser.

Nice - glad to know I don't have to lend Zak my Sanken CS3e again

So for Foley - I imagined that you'd use a large diaphragm condenser for more of the effects that you want to "craft", but thought you might use a similar mic for stuff that you wanted to "blend in"? I've used a Schoeps MK41 before on both interior dialogue, ADR and foley. Was this a stupid move?

Now for ADR you generally want a similar mic, right?

Personally I would probably set up in a similar space with the prop and record a bunch of book downs and slams. It should cut in pretty easily.

OK - so I got the part about "either a dead space or a similar space" right?

Foley pretty much always follows dialog so it's going to end up in the center spearker. I have yet to see Foley recorded in stereo.

Because if you recorded Foley in stereo...

1. you couldn't just stick it in the center speaker easily
2. you'd have a stereo room reverb thing going on which wouldn't mix in with the mono room reverb of the dialog that's recorded on set, right?

Quick question: would it be at all helpful for directors to record impulse responses on set?

I mean, if each scene's sound recorded not just room tone but one of those Altiverb impulse recordings, then you could just foley or ADR in a dead space and then stick it through Altiverb with the right impulse? Can't imagine it being a panacea or working on its own... but then I can't see it hurting either?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[Noiz2]

So for Foley - I imagined that you'd use a large diaphragm condenser for more of the effects that you want to "craft", but thought you might use a similar mic for stuff that you wanted to "blend in"? I've used a Schoeps MK41 before on both interior dialogue, ADR and foley. Was this a stupid move?

Not stupid. And it depends on how much post you do. If your doing a full sound post it's really not that hard to get things to drop in generally, as long as they aren't full of reverb. If your doing a very think sound post and things are going to be fairly naked in the mix then it's harder to get them to fit in and using the same mic might be a help. For fuller mixes the general thing is to get as high a quality sound as you can because it's going to get mixed and played with so downgrading it is not an issue.

Now for ADR you generally want a similar mic, right?

I've heard arguments both ways but I have seen an awful lot of high end ADR done with out using the original mic. Again YMMV if your not doing a full audio post. I never worry about it my self. Part of the reason is that your not duplicating the environment or mic position or clothing etc so it really is a bit of a wank. The same mic in a different position is going to sound different anyway.

OK - so I got the part about "either a dead space or a similar space" right?

Generally. You either want a dead space or one that sounds like the set looks.

Because if you recorded Foley in stereo...

1. you couldn't just stick it in the center speaker easily
2. you'd have a stereo room reverb thing going on which wouldn't mix in with the mono room reverb of the dialog that's recorded on set, right?

can

Kind of. You can always mono a sound so the center channel isn't so much the issue as that it's mostly stuff the actor does. It's things that in the audiences mind are tied to where the actor is and that is the center speaker. If all went well there is no "reverb" from the set to match. All that reverb will be added in post so everything is in the same space. But again Foley almost always deals with small things that are essentially point sources of sound. The "world" they reverberate in is created in post so you want them, generally , as clean as possible.

The other side is that with low budget short schedule projects recording FX and WIFO in spaces that are about right can save you time. Part of that is because you are going to be doing a thinner edit by necessity so they will fit in better. But they are also not as useful in the library...

Quick question: would it be at all helpful for directors to record impulse responses on set?

Yes. Most sets don't sound like what the "world" of the film wants to sound like so they are usually not much use as a general preset but they can be really useful for things like ADR and even Foley, to help them drop in smoother.

I mean, if each scene's sound recorded not just room tone but one of those Altiverb impulse recordings, then you could just foley or ADR in a dead space and then stick it through Altiverb with the right impulse? Can't imagine it being a panacea or working on its own... but then I can't see it hurting either?

You sort of answered that. It can help get your ADR to the same starting point as the production tracks. What is also helpful is IF the set is in a real location, to get impulses of other spaces there. The "set" is loaded with all kinds of stuff that the camera doesn't see so it's good for matching but not much else. However if your in some great cavernous space