Just wondering how most people make record their audio in a way that doesn't sound like they were standing in front of a mic. I see a lot of great short films with superb audio... but as good as it is, all I can picture when I hear most dialog is a mic hanging right over their heads recording it. Is there something that needs to be done in post to decrease the general "punch" that most dialog seems to have, give it a bit of "airiness"? Basically I feel that the majority of audio even on pretty expensive mikes has a very impactful feel, it's just a bit unnatural. Even on videos where people are highly praised for the amazing audio job... it just simply lacks the type of sound you generally hear from most films. Is this only due to the actual mic chosen, or is there some magic in post that flattens out the audio a bit? I'm very new to recording audio, and am just trying to learn as much as I can : )
How to record dialog like what you would hear in a real movie?
- Thread starter L1N3ARX
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dvxhutch
Well-known member
An industry standard for recording audio indoors is the Schoeps cmc641. It's 2 grand - pretty expensive, but compared to what a professional camera costs it's peanuts.
The Schoeps, to me, is the only mic that doesn't sound like a mic - it just sounds like the voice being recorded, pure and simple. Other mikes sound like recordings, some better than others.
The Schoeps, to me, is the only mic that doesn't sound like a mic - it just sounds like the voice being recorded, pure and simple. Other mikes sound like recordings, some better than others.
drapeama
Well-known member
1) Well, you can get decent audio for dialog in at least three methods:
a) Boomed (usually a shotgun or hypercardioid indoor).
b) Using a Lav, that the actors wears.
c) Using ADR.
There can be other methods, but that's the three I'm aware of. Honestly, using a lav (depending on which model) you can get mostly only the voice recorded (usually reported as more "sterile") and you can have some that picks up more noise/ambience. Personally, I prefer the one that focus more on the voice and pick up less noise and ambience in the recording: makes it easier to "blend" it into the mix in post. You can add some roomtone as needed and "degrade" it if it's too clean, something you can't really do with a badly recorded audio.
2) Could you define the "type of sound generally hear from most movies"?
3) There's different possibilities: Microphone placement when recording is probably the most important thing. An average mic well boomed or placed will give better results than a highly expensive mic poorly used. I'd say, Mic Placement + Right Mic for the job would do a great job. Then, comes the postproduction part. Every audio track needs some treatment (noise removal, EQs..) so a good job in post can also helps a lot in the final result. But, if the audio hasn't been recorded properly first, then it's too late.
Steve House
Veteran
Remember too that studio-made theatrical motion picture soundtracks are meticulously crafted from many separate layers of sound and are not just the recording of the dialog from a mic. Layer upon layer of production dialog or ADR, ambience tracks, Foley, SFX, room tone, etc are mixed together to create the final aural experience.
drapeama
Well-known member
thesoundguy
Carbonite Member
the biggest hint I can give you about getting your sound to not sound like the microphone was right in front of your actors is by losing some of the low end when re-recording dialog. ( I think that is what you were asking)
The proximity effect occurs when using a directional microphone with the talent extremely close. A lot of voice over clients like the warmness of a 416 recorded and 6 inches... The closer to the mic you are, the more bass you will get out of it. If you want it to sound more natural, roll off some of the low end.
The proximity effect occurs when using a directional microphone with the talent extremely close. A lot of voice over clients like the warmness of a 416 recorded and 6 inches... The closer to the mic you are, the more bass you will get out of it. If you want it to sound more natural, roll off some of the low end.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Actually drapeama's tracks are pretty light by film standards. A "normal" track count would be in the 100+ range on the light side and 200+ as a more common range.
I think what the OP is noticing is the nakedness of the dialog in most no budget films. A fair number of no budget films have good to decent production sound but they do almost no audio post. They will add sounds to the dialog track when they think something is missing but they use production as the main track.
A big budget film only uses dialog from production. Sometimes they will pull a sound or two from the production track but not nec. All the backgrounds and everything not dialog that you hear has been added. All that sound pulls the dialog into the world of the film and kills the "recorded in an empty room" sound that is so common in no budget films.
I think what the OP is noticing is the nakedness of the dialog in most no budget films. A fair number of no budget films have good to decent production sound but they do almost no audio post. They will add sounds to the dialog track when they think something is missing but they use production as the main track.
A big budget film only uses dialog from production. Sometimes they will pull a sound or two from the production track but not nec. All the backgrounds and everything not dialog that you hear has been added. All that sound pulls the dialog into the world of the film and kills the "recorded in an empty room" sound that is so common in no budget films.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Well first off it's Foley not foley.
Second what you are describing are SFX not Foley anyway. Foley is performed and recorded live to picture playback on a Foley stage. If your not recording in sync to picture it's SFX.
Lastly while doing all you mention is a good idea it is not anywhere near enough to get the sound track to where the OP is talking about.
Noiz2 is right. I've sat in on some mixes for big budget hollywood features, and I've done some SFX editing, and production work. Here's what goes on in quick form.
-The production sound mixer on a big budget studio film typically has at least $100K of audio equipment. Everything from high end microphones, recorders, mixers, wireless systems, IFB's, timecode devices, LCD monitors, computers..and more. Having really good gear on production is essential to get the best audio track you can.
-Post production audio is a BIG process, and much bigger than people realize. Back in my intern days, we were working on the second Matrix movie, and we were working on that for at least 6 months, if not longer, and that's not counting the many sound effects recording sessions we did beforehand. A typical post production audio team will have anywhere from 3 to 6 people just cutting audio, and then you have the Foley artists and mixers, ADR mixers, and other ancillary people.
-THEN you have pre-dubs, which basically mean each part of the sound is pre-mixed. You would have a foley pre-dub, dialogue pre-dub (which would usually have BG's), and SFX predub.
-THEN you get to the final mix, where there are hundreds of tracks of audio. A final mix can take weeks depending on the project. I've heard of some final mixes taking months.
When I worked on Fear Factor (not the one that just started up again, but when it was on several years ago), I was cutting sound effects, and my effects sessions would easily get to 100 tracks wide....and that's just the effects, not counting dialogue, foley, bg's, and sound design. That was just a reality TV show, and we would crank out 1 episode per week, which was insane for a show like that because each episode was like an hour long action movie. We had a big team on that show usually working almost around the clock to get it done.
So...to get to the original point....on a big budget feature, there is a lot of time, attention, and money that can be thrown at dialogue to make it sound as good as possible, which is something you don't see on lower budget or indie stuff, and surely not on short films unless someone has a lot of money to throw at it.
-The production sound mixer on a big budget studio film typically has at least $100K of audio equipment. Everything from high end microphones, recorders, mixers, wireless systems, IFB's, timecode devices, LCD monitors, computers..and more. Having really good gear on production is essential to get the best audio track you can.
-Post production audio is a BIG process, and much bigger than people realize. Back in my intern days, we were working on the second Matrix movie, and we were working on that for at least 6 months, if not longer, and that's not counting the many sound effects recording sessions we did beforehand. A typical post production audio team will have anywhere from 3 to 6 people just cutting audio, and then you have the Foley artists and mixers, ADR mixers, and other ancillary people.
-THEN you have pre-dubs, which basically mean each part of the sound is pre-mixed. You would have a foley pre-dub, dialogue pre-dub (which would usually have BG's), and SFX predub.
-THEN you get to the final mix, where there are hundreds of tracks of audio. A final mix can take weeks depending on the project. I've heard of some final mixes taking months.
When I worked on Fear Factor (not the one that just started up again, but when it was on several years ago), I was cutting sound effects, and my effects sessions would easily get to 100 tracks wide....and that's just the effects, not counting dialogue, foley, bg's, and sound design. That was just a reality TV show, and we would crank out 1 episode per week, which was insane for a show like that because each episode was like an hour long action movie. We had a big team on that show usually working almost around the clock to get it done.
So...to get to the original point....on a big budget feature, there is a lot of time, attention, and money that can be thrown at dialogue to make it sound as good as possible, which is something you don't see on lower budget or indie stuff, and surely not on short films unless someone has a lot of money to throw at it.
You are correct. Foley is done on a stage. I was just suggesting some simple ideas but I guess it's not really relevant to what the OP is looking for so I deleted my post. Just careless web capitalization on my part. Didn't mean to disrespect Mr. Foley, whom the term was named after.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Dave mind those F's ;~)
I would add that money = time in a lot of cases so you can do a full job on a no budget film if you have enough time. If you can't afford to to pay a living wage then your editor is going to have to work between paying gigs so it will take a lot longer. BUT if you are willing to do that then you may well be able to find a sound editor willing to cut you a really good deal.
Terry_Lasater
All about the Caption
You can run but you can't hide from the Foley Police.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
No need to delete. They were good suggestions.
This is what it takes to make great sound at the top of the game. A great post production sound facility with great talent and years of experience. Perhaps the most respected sound facility:
http://www.skysound.com/staff_mixers.html
http://www.skysound.com/qtvr/qtvr_tour_mix_a.html
Not shown are stages dedicated to re-recording dialog (ADR) and the Foley stage.
http://www.skysound.com/staff_mixers.html
http://www.skysound.com/qtvr/qtvr_tour_mix_a.html
Not shown are stages dedicated to re-recording dialog (ADR) and the Foley stage.
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Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Unless they added one recently they don't have a dedicated ADR stage. If I remember correctly we used the isolation booth on the scoring stage.
They also don't show the rest of the mix stages, there are seven (actually six plus the Stag that can convert).
As great as the Ranch is 90% of what it takes to produce great sound can be done in a home studio.
You can't mix for the big screen with out mixing ON a big screen but that and recording a live score are about the only things that require a large facility.
It's certainly easier when you have such a large pool of talent and recourses to draw on but there is no reason folks doing small films on micro budgets don't have great sound tracks except that they didn't work hard enough to get a great sound track. A big part of that is getting someone with some talent to do it. But a lot of them managed to find talented DP's and actors. You can find affordable talent you just have to look hard enough.
Correct. They remodeled and replaced the ADR stage with mixing stages.
Indeed, I'm not trying to tell people that they need this facility to make great sound, but just showing the scope of what is behind the scenes for major feature sound.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Yes it is kind of amazing how many people and how much stuff it takes to get to a point where most people think it was all done on set in one.
If only I had a picture of the old main machine room! There were something like 60 dubbers in there. It looked like a futuristic view of a supercomputer circa 1950.
If only I had a picture of the old main machine room! There were something like 60 dubbers in there. It looked like a futuristic view of a supercomputer circa 1950.