How to make the offer?

D

DVX100Shooter

Veteran
I got a short video that I shot, Produced and edited of a BMX Freestyle show very similiar to what you would see at the X-Games. Now I was not shooting this event for the company throwing the event. I was there shooting for myself. I showed some people the finished product and said I should contact the owners of the company to see if they would like to purchase the video and use it for Promotional reasons.

How would I even go about doing this? I do have a demo version that is watermarked that I could send them so they can see the video. But if they are interested how much do I charge? Do I base it on how long it took me to edit the video?

Now if they want to buy the video from me, do I still own the rights to the video meaning I can use it in some other stuff I am working on? Or when and if they buy the video they own the rights? How does that work?
 
Re: How to make the offer?

How much do you think the video is worth and how much do you think they can afford to pay? You could go through your hours/days and assign an arbitrary day rate for whatever you were doing on that day...add that up, then figure an ammount for materials, add that up, then figure out an ammount for rentals (even equipment you own) and add that up. The totals give a rough estimate of how much it "cost" you to produce.

Do you think the company would pay that much? If the answer is no, then figure out what they would pay and make that the offer. Since they didn't ask you to shoot or edit this project, there's a good chance that they either will not be interested, or they will understand that you're probably not going to have many other avenues for the sale of this program and they'll adjust their offer accordingly.

Also, as a matter of detail...did you get everyone in the video to sign a release form?

As far as the rights, those would all be part of your contract. You can either sign away the rights to the footage, or retain the rights for yourself. Either way, you want to be allowed to use the materials in promotion of your own services.

There are a few books out there that have standard boilerplate contracts, and you might be able to find some online.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Yes, definitely get release forms. Those can be very dangerous when you're using video where the people who are in it don't necessarily know how it's going to be used. This covers your bases legally with the people in the film.

Contracts are very important as well, especially to maintain intellectual property rights on your work. It doesn't even have to be *that* formal. Simply something outlining the agreement you have with the business with them signing it will go a long way. It would also be a good idea to get multiple copies of the contracts signed by them and mail one of them to yourself in a sealed envelope. This will add further credibility to your claim if it's ever disputed as the post office date stamps the envelope and you can open it in court to prove it was signed on a specific date.

Best case scenario is that you don't need any of this and everyone will be honest and forthright. Worst case scenario is that they steal your work and claim they made it and you potentially end up losing all your rights to your work and are unable to use it for anything. By having written contracts it cuts down on that risk and gives you some security.

As far as getting them to buy it? Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. That being said, don't be too eager to try to sell it off. Set a price that you're comfortable and stick with it. Make it reasonable to them, but if they're unwilling to buy it at the price you set, it'll be more worth it not to sell it simply to maintain a standard.

I ran into that problem with wedding videos awhile back. We did so much work and ended up not making nearly enough money for it. It felt like we were putting tonnes of time and effort in that just wasn't worth it. Don't let this happen to you. Set a standard for yourself and how much your time is worth. It's better for the soul ;)
 
Re: How to make the offer?

The dead man's copyright method of dating...sending something to yourself in a sealed postmarked envelope has proven to not hold up in court a number of times, so that's not a good catch-all method of protecting yourself.

You should be able to find a standard contract somewhere online and just fill in whatever names you need, but of course...you can't sell it to them if you don't have clearance from everyone in the film.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Get the book "Clearance and Copyright" by Michael Donaldson. I'm half-way through reading it and it is very informative. Lots of advice (and saying that the mail it to yourself thing isn't the best idea), and lots of sample contracts and explanations.

~A
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Well like I said I was filming this show for myself. There were tons of other people there with video cameras as well. So I didn't get the bike riders to sign any sort of release. What I did was put together a little promo to send to them so they could see my work and maybe hire me to do other shows and events. That was the whole reason I took my DVX to the show.

So, next time, your saying I should walk up to the riders before the show and say hey I need you all to sign this release because I am going to be filming you all do tricks on your bikes and I might want to sell the video? What about all the other people standing right beside and around with their cameras and they didn't follow that process? What if the riders decline signing the release does that mean I cannot attempt to sell the video. I know I can still shoot them though.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

[quote author=J_Barnes link=board=MesPhotos;num=1094175328;start=0#3 date=09/05/04 at 04:58:34]The dead man's copyright method of dating...sending something to yourself in a sealed postmarked envelope has proven to not hold up in court a number of times  [/quote]

It drives me crazy when people present the "mail it to yourself" argument as having any validity whatsoever.

It can be disproven in about half a second by any competent attorney.

Try it yourself: mail yourself an UNSEALED envelope. It'll get postmarked and get to you. Then you can put whatever you want in there, seal it, and claim you mailed it to yourself.

And any lawyer worth his salt will disprove it in half a second.

So just file for a real copyright. It costs $30 and it's registered with the Library of Congress.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Yeah sure, I suggested it. Only on top of having actual contracts written up though. It might not necessarily hold up in court, but it's yet another thing to add validity to your argument. There are many other things that will be taken into consideration much more than simply that.

It's something that is extremely cheap to do and really doesn't require that much more effort on your part. If you have 3 copies of a contract, one for you to keep on files, one for the other person who signed it, and one mailed to yourself, it helps a little bit more than simply only having the other 2 contracts.

I never once said that it was foolproof and will always work... it simply just helps to add a little bit more credibilty in front of a judge that these contracts were made on a specific date. You can always use the extra help when in court. You shouldn't rely on it, but it would still help a little.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Also, concerning your question about the bikers... I believe you can still ask them for the release after they've been filmed. You just can't sell it until that release is signed. It's the selling part that adds the requirement of having release forms signed...

If you can contact those bikers that were in the show somehow that would be the most ideal situation. Appraise them of the situation and explain your intentions with your film, get them to sign a release and you should be set.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

What about "blanket release" postings? Has anyone ever tried that? I did a live video for a musician last year, that was shot in a bar. There were only 2 ways into the bar. On each of these doors we put up a sign at eye-level that said, "Videotaping in progress - your presence on this property constitutes your release. Your image and voice may be recorded and used in any type of media in perpetuity throughout the world - bla blah blah. I don't remember the exact wording. Before the show started the MC stepped up to the mic and reiterated that we would be shooting and if you did not wish to relinquish your right to be video/audio taped to please exit the venue. No one left, we got it all on tape. Made a video - the artist is using it for promotions/ and may sell copies of it. Anyone have stories of this NOT working? I can see that doing this outdoors, or at a place where you cannot herd the attendees past your sign it could present a problem.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

There wasn't a concensus here about blanket releases. I seem to think that in a lot of cases, it covers you pretty well, especially if you have someone read the release to the crowd before the even and videotape it (as they did in Decline of Western Civilization pt. 1).

My thoughts are that it covers you to some degree, but theres still a chance you'll have to defend it in court...and we're not sure if it will effectively cover your bases. Thus, it's better then nothing, but you might still have issues (which you could potentially have with any sort of release).
 
Re: How to make the offer?

MTV was in town all summer filming "The Real World Philadelphia" (Premieres tonight at 10pm) anyway I remember seeing big signs posted on the doors of the Wachovia Center that basically said the same thing....we are filming inside...if you dont want to be taped then dont bother coming into the building type thing. I think something like that works for big events or shoots where it is impossible to have everybody sign a release.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

I'm no lawyer, but blanket releases are fairly common. We used 'em on Comedy Central shoots, and also for other shoots. For anyone we specifically interview or put on camera, they sign a separate release, but the blanket release was what we used for incidentals, crowds, etc.

Still, always discuss it with a lawyer licensed to practice in your city.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

I think it works if you have a closed off area and specify anyone in that area is in agreement with the release. This way everyone who's there knows what they're getting into and if they aren't there, then they didn't agree to it, but you're also not filming them, so no worries...
 
Re: How to make the offer?

DVX100shooter, i take it your from philly? so am i. What bike stunt show were you filming? just wondering, i've been riding bmx for years
 
Re: How to make the offer?

Yea I work in Philly. The bike show I filmed was actually down in Ocean City, Maryland at a Custom Car Show earlier this summer. I was heavily into bikes (Freestyle and Ramps) when I was yonger and was sponsored by the local bike shop as well. I used to ride ramps at Matt Hoffman's house (his parent's house at the time) I met him in High School when I lived out in Oklahoma. Now the boy has his own bike company, a Sony Playstation game named after him, been in all sorts of movies and TV shows/commercials....I need to get in contact with him! Oh yea he just had his house featured on MTV's "Cribs" show. Sometimes I want to go buy a bike and see if I could still do all the tricks! LOL!

What part of Philly are you from?
 
Re: How to make the offer?

thats awesome, mat hoffman is big time now. i grew up in west chester, but now i live in center city and go to temple for film. Where do you work? is it film related? if you ever need a second camera, let me know. my email is watsona@temple.edu
 
Re: How to make the offer?

You know they filmed some scenes from the movie JACKASS with Johnny Knoxville and gang in West Chester. That other show Bam La Viva or whatever its called is shot there as well. I shoot for one of the TV stations in the city and I do shoots on the side. I will definitely keep you in mind. I know I will be shooting a video a group that is from Philly sometime soon not sure when though. They actually go or went to Temple and studied film as well. They go by the name of Crooked Souls.
 
Re: How to make the offer?

haha yea its hard to forget that jackass is filmed in west chester. Bam lives next to someone i know. I met one of the guys who films viva bam, he was really cool, but i'm not a fan of bam. yea man keep me posted.
 
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