How to light a greenscreen table with two subjects?

K

Ken1212

Well-known member
I am setting up a small greenscreen studio for a talk show that I will composite live to a virtual studio using Vmix . The setup includes a green background with a green table. We will be shooting with three cameras. My questions:

1. Do you have any tips on lighting the table along with the host and guest. How do you create separation in setup and lighting for the table and the subjects.
2. I will be lighting the subjects with daylight led lights. Should I use the same lights to light the table with a green cloth? I will be using a dark table with the green screen to reduce spill.
3. I will be using 4' kinos on the green background, do you have any recommendations for daylight lamps (fluorescent or led)?
 
I’m presuming you’re planning to replace the table in post, as well, and that’s why it will be green. I feel like that may lead to problems or at the least make your life hard, since your subjects will be in very close proximity to and probably in contact with/touching the green table and it will “spill” onto them. There is a HUGE virtual studio here in-town, but the table that talent sits around/interacts with is real.
 
Yep this idea that keying is just a world of green things is bs in the pro world.. whatch the BTS of any blockbuster and the talent is on a 'real' floor.. sand rock whatever and the green is behind where they dont come in to contact.

Then you have the problem that the new table needs to be shot from the same distance height lens to be able to plug in.

A real table would be the norm??
 
Ahh, a fellow VMix user!

1. I concur with Morgan and Run&Gun, use a real table, the fewer objects that your talent comes into contact with that are green, the better.
2. ? What's the purpose of lighting the table with green cloth, I am not understanding your motivation here for not using a real table?
3. I've ran tests lighting green screen BGs with a grab bag of different lights and color temps. My conclusion is, with modern keyers and cameras, it doesn't matter.
I've shot talent with daylight, lit the greenscreen with tungsten, daylight, 4300K bi color LEDs adjusted for ambient fluorescent tubes, green sources, etc. In the end, I could key all of them just fine. All that matters is
exposure ratios between subject, mitigating green spill on talent (harder than it seems, that crap shows up everywhere).

My setup the past few years is to light talent with whatever lighting I'd like. I am lighting up to a 12x12' green screen with my two Kamerar Brightcast LED panels and life is good. What matters more is separation
of talent from the green screen and green screen lighting. Your proposal to light a green table where talent is interacting with it will likely result in failure. There is no way possible to
light a green table and have talent interact with it without considerable green spill onto talent. Also reflections, glasses, blond hair or any hot spot reflections will be trouble spots for
your compositor.

Also, the VMix keyer and virtual sets are decent, I use them for keying in an auctioneer with a live giving platform readout in the virual TV monitor behind him.

Personally, as a DP, I have a deep and umitigated hatred for green screen and how most unimaginative producers use it. Green screen can be an amazingly creative
tool but most producers use it as a cop out because they cannot decide how to stage a real scene with real set dressing, props, etc. Green screen sucks. But that said,
I can light a beautiful key and I am forced to shoot tons of interviews green screen because that's what clients want.
 
Last edited:
puredrifting said:
Ahh, a fellow VMix user!

1. I concur with Morgan and Run&Gun, use a real table, the fewer objects that your talent comes into contact with that are green, the better.
2. ? What's the purpose of lighting the table with green cloth, I am not understanding your motivation here for not using a real table?
3. I've ran tests lighting green screen BGs with a grab bag of different lights and color temps. My conclusion is, with modern keyers and cameras, it doesn't matter.
I've shot talent with daylight, lit the greenscreen with tungsten, daylight, 4300K bi color LEDs adjusted for ambient fluorescent tubes, green sources, etc. In the end, I could key all of them just fine. All that matters is
exposure ratios between subject, mitigating green spill on talent (harder than it seems, that crap shows up everywhere).

My setup the past few years is to light talent with whatever lighting I'd like. I am lighting up to a 12x12' green screen with my two Kamerar Brightcast LED panels and life is good. What matters more is separation
of talent from the green screen and green screen lighting. Your proposal to light a green table where talent is interacting with it will likely result in failure. There is no way possible to
light a green table and have talent interact with it without considerable green spill onto talent. Also reflections, glasses, blond hair or any hot spot reflections will be trouble spots for
your compositor.

Also, the VMix keyer and virtual sets are decent, I use them for keying in an auctioneer with a live giving platform readout in the virual TV monitor behind him.

Personally, as a DP, I have a deep and umitigated hatred for green screen and how most unimaginative producers use it. Green screen can be an amazingly creative
tool but most producers use it as a cop out because they cannot decide how to stage a real scene with real set dressing, props, etc. Green screen sucks. But that said,
I can light a beautiful key and I am forced to shoot tons of interviews green screen because that's what clients want.
Click to expand...


Thanks all for your input. This is a very small budget YouTube project that I am doing to stay creative with very few jobs during Covid. We already have a custom virtual set that we would like to use and it includes a desk. The studio itself is small 16' wide x 22' long, I have already built a ceiling backdrop track and setup a green screen that is 24' wide. This will give me 16' for the back and 4' on each side to get my side shots. The studio is being used for video production and photography and prefer a light portable table concept if I can make it work. I have shot with a green screen backdrop in this studio before and got a nice key. Will soon be doing some tests and anticipate problems with the the table, I am hopping if I can keep the subjects (host and guest) from touching the table that it might work with some minus green. I am also looking at the option of getting a Reflecmedia backdrop for the table, but then I will need three green rings, one for each camera and not sure if the key will work seamlessly with the green backdrop. My last option is to use a real desk because of studio size and current usage it will get in the way.
 
Let us know how it goes. Personally, I would choose a virtual set where the height of the virtual desk is higher than the real tabletop. Then I would shoot it with just a plain old desk, not green screened. Then I would set my camera angle
so as to appear to have talent where they would look down at a paper, script or object is the same angle as the virtual desktop. If talent needs to interact with items that are supposed to be on the virtual tabletop, then you're in deep and personally I think you'll have
problems unless you can use a switcher on set with a split screen or onion skin function where you could superimpose your real tabletop to that it precisely matches the height of the virtual desk. And even then, it may not end up working that convincingly. Keying out anything in the same
focal plane as talent will be a PITA, there is no way around that. Spill will be an issue likely.

If it was me, I would simply choose another virtual set without a desk and use a real desk, problem solved. I am a big advocate of NOT going into shoots with a known pain in the ass mess to deal with on set as I am lighting and trying to
shoot a good performance with talent. Problems like this in low end production rarely yield the result you envisioned and often are a nightmare. Simpler, smoother is easier. Fighting something that isn't meant to be usually leads to
frustration and dissatisfaction. Production alone is hard enough. Production with a known nightmare looming is much worse. Unless your client will give you budget for a test shoot and you can iron out all of the kinks BEFORE the big shoot day?

I used the Reflecmedia system for years. It's ok but finicky about certain things and it's hard to not flood the talent with the green light from the ring light. I really wasn't impressed with it, it seemed like a product made for people who don't know
how to light and setup a proper green screen. If your talent wears glasses, you'll never get rid of that ring light reflection too.
 
How will the perspective work with a green screen table? If you have a background green screen and a green table - you are planning on two different keys with masks, or just one background image that includes a table? - This won't work Multicam. My vote is real table - that's how we do it in our studio. I also don't mix colour temps - if the talent light is a different CT to the green screen light, shadows will have edges. I don't think it matters if you choose 3200, or higher, but they must be the same if there's any possibility they will both light the green screen. You'll beed to widen the keying tolerances to allow proper keying and that always impacts on edges.
 
puredrifting said:
Let us know how it goes. Personally, I would choose a virtual set where the height of the virtual desk is higher than the real tabletop. Then I would shoot it with just a plain old desk, not green screened. Then I would set my camera angle
so as to appear to have talent where they would look down at a paper, script or object is the same angle as the virtual desktop. If talent needs to interact with items that are supposed to be on the virtual tabletop, then you're in deep and personally I think you'll have
problems unless you can use a switcher on set with a split screen or onion skin function where you could superimpose your real tabletop to that it precisely matches the height of the virtual desk. And even then, it may not end up working that convincingly. Keying out anything in the same
focal plane as talent will be a PITA, there is no way around that. Spill will be an issue likely.

If it was me, I would simply choose another virtual set without a desk and use a real desk, problem solved. I am a big advocate of NOT going into shoots with a known pain in the ass mess to deal with on set as I am lighting and trying to
shoot a good performance with talent. Problems like this in low end production rarely yield the result you envisioned and often are a nightmare. Simpler, smoother is easier. Fighting something that isn't meant to be usually leads to
frustration and dissatisfaction. Production alone is hard enough. Production with a known nightmare looming is much worse. Unless your client will give you budget for a test shoot and you can iron out all of the kinks BEFORE the big shoot day?

I used the Reflecmedia system for years. It's ok but finicky about certain things and it's hard to not flood the talent with the green light from the ring light. I really wasn't impressed with it, it seemed like a product made for people who don't know
how to light and setup a proper green screen. If your talent wears glasses, you'll never get rid of that ring light reflection too.
Click to expand...

Below is a copy of the virtual set. It has four virtual inputs, the background and the three monitors as seen with test images from the web. As you can see the desk does sit higher, the set includes over the shoulder and close ups. I have to do lots of testing as I configure the lights. We do not have thousands of dollars for a broadcast desk to match the set but if I can find a reasonable option that is not cumbersome since the space is tight and blends well with the set that would be nice. Thanks for the input on Reflecmedia as I never used it before, I just thought it might be a workaround option.

Close Up.jpg
 
paulears said:
How will the perspective work with a green screen table? If you have a background green screen and a green table - you are planning on two different keys with masks, or just one background image that includes a table? - This won't work Multicam. My vote is real table - that's how we do it in our studio. I also don't mix colour temps - if the talent light is a different CT to the green screen light, shadows will have edges. I don't think it matters if you choose 3200, or higher, but they must be the same if there's any possibility they will both light the green screen. You'll beed to widen the keying tolerances to allow proper keying and that always impacts on edges.
Click to expand...

I am planning to use the same green screen cloth material on both the background and table. Concerning perspective check the virtual set photo above. I have nothing against a real table if I can get something light and about six feet wide that does not cost thousands and would match the set. I will have to lay down green in front of the table to get my wide shot.
 
Ken1212 said:
Below is a copy of the virtual set. It has four virtual inputs, the background and the three monitors as seen with test images from the web. As you can see the desk does sit higher, the set includes over the shoulder and close ups. I have to do lots of testing as I configure the lights. We do not have thousands of dollars for a broadcast desk to match the set but if I can find a reasonable option that is not cumbersome since the space is tight and blends well with the set that would be nice. Thanks for the input on Reflecmedia as I never used it before, I just thought it might be a workaround option.

View attachment 141087
Click to expand...

This is a super wide view, do they provide you mediums and close ups too? You'd probably not use a shot this wide in your edit much, I know I wouldn't. Maybe just a second or two in the open to establish that world
but then I'd be on mediums and CUs for the rest.
 
puredrifting said:
This is a super wide view, do they provide you mediums and close ups too? You'd probably not use a shot this wide in your edit much, I know I wouldn't. Maybe just a second or two in the open to establish that world
but then I'd be on mediums and CUs for the rest.
Click to expand...

Correct. Yes, I have several compositions including mediums , close ups and over the shoulder. The wide shot will only be used twice, to open and close.

To help the host and guest to not use the table I would get stools with arm rest and provide the host an Ipad stand holder with flex arm (see link below), the Ipad will have all the show questions.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZSCRX6...olid=1VSF4EYG34XLN&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top