how to defend ideas

[Steve Laramie]

So I have a new movie idea that I feel really good about. I know I feel good about it because I am becoming paranoid as hell as to who I tell. Is there any sort of copy right for story lines? I am afraid of talking to a producer about it and getting denied and then seeing my idea at cannes 2016

 

[David G. Smith]

What you want to do is establish the idea as yours, and make sure that it is time stamped. The first thing that you can do is write the idea up as a film treatment, print out the treatment, seal it in an envelope and send it to yourself by USPS certified mail. When you get the treatment in the mail, file it away without opening it. This will establish a time/date that you had the idea. I also think that the WGA will register film treatments. This costs, but it is minimal. Google the WGA and contact them about it. What they will do is file the treatment, date stamp it and send you registration #. The registration # can then be put on stuff that you send out to let the recipients know that you have registered the idea.

 

[Barry_Green]

This will establish a time/date that you had the idea

No it won't. Nothing legally provable by that at all. It's an internet myth that needs to die.* So don't waste the stamp. If your idea is so great, spend $35 and register it with the US Copyright Office. That's bulletproof.

I also think that the WGA will register film treatments. This costs, but it is minimal

Yes, they will.

However -- the fact remains that you can't copyright an idea, and at a bare minimum, there's probably 500 people running around with the exact same idea in their heads.

It's what you do with the idea that's copyrightable. As David said, commit the idea to paper, and develop it as far as you can. And if you show it to anyone, keep track of who and when.

But the fact is, if it's a great idea, they'll steal it.

If it's a screenplay, they won't steal it. It's way too much hassle to steal a screenplay and get sued, when you can just buy one for pennies.

And any company worth talking to, will make you sign a waiver that acknowledges on your part that the company may very well already be developing an idea similar to *or identical to* what you plan to propose. And that's just the way it is.

So -- you cannot copyright your idea. You can copyright an expression of that idea, even if it's as small as a paragraph or as long as a full screenplay. You can copyright that and protect yourself from someone who appropriates it, but you cannot do anything about someone who hears about your idea and then decides to implement their OWN version of it.

Think of it this way -- as a photographer, you can stand on top of Mt. Everest at noon of the Summer Solstice and take a gorgeous picture, and you can copyright it, and you can sell it, and you can sue anyone else who tries to use your picture. But you can't do a single thing about the photographer who was standing right next to you, who pointed their camera in the same direction at the same time, and took their own photo...

*don't believe me? Go mail yourself a self-addressed envelope, but forget to seal it. It'll go through, they'll postmark it, and then you'll have an envelope that's postmarked Dec. 11, 2009. Then, a year from now, steal someone's "great script idea" and put a copy of it in that envelope and seal it. And there you have it -- you've just defeated the so-called "poor man's copyright" -- and you can bet that any lawyer worth anything will know how to defeat your claim in court too.

 

[David G. Smith]

Barry, certified mail (Priority Mail) in the United States is sent in USPS window envelopes, sealed by the USPS. Now, whether that stands up in court is another thing, but certified mail (Priority Mail) in the US will not be sent in an unsealed envelope.

 

[ChipG]

Don't worry about it too much, it won't hold up in court. It'll be an embarassment if you depend on it to protect you.

 

[shutterspeedfilms]

So I have a new movie idea that I feel really good about. I know I feel good about it because I am becoming paranoid as hell as to who I tell. Is there any sort of copy right for story lines? I am afraid of talking to a producer about it and getting denied and then seeing my idea at cannes 2016

Not to rain on your parade, but I doubt the "idea" is worth ripping off. Ideas are worth less than the cliched "dime a dozen," as everyone has 'em. If it's that high concept, then chances are it's already been thought of by someone else out there.

It's the fixed form of the idea (in other words, the execution) that's even remotely valuable.

A producer isn't going to take some abstract idea seriously. A completed, vetted screenplay, maybe.

 

[Phil H.]

Ideas are not copyrightable. Only the expression of an idea. You could pitch the idea to a room with 100 writers. They could all write a script based on your idea. And you can do nothing about it. Because in the end, it's the EXPRESSION of the idea that is the only thing that can be copyrighted.

I recently had an old military buddy contact me via Facebook asking this same thing. He knew I was a filmmaker and he has an idea that's burning inside him. He wants to copyright it. I told him he could not. He wants people to sign a non-disclosure agreement before pitching them idea. He wanted me to sign this non-disclosure agreement before he would even pitch it to me. You know what, I had him sign a release saying exactly what Barry mentioned, that I could be developing something similar already or could develop something similar in the future and that he could not sue me.

But regardless, his idea, and your idea, are in the minds of hundreds of people around the world in one form or another. Every story is a take on 7-10 basic stories. Yes there are differences, but really, an idea is just that, an idea.

Write a treatment. Develop the characters, the archetypes, the story arc, the lessons learned, the theme, etc, etc. Write this down and then you'll have an expression of your idea that can be coprighted.

Best of luck,

 

[John Brawley]

The first thing that you can do is write the idea up as a film treatment, print out the treatment, seal it in an envelope and send it to yourself by USPS certified mail.

As barry says a very common urban myth. The first myth debunked here

You shouldn't worry about it. Chance are there are many other things that will get in the way of your script being made. Being ripped off is WAY down the list.....

Go ahead and PRACTICE pitching it. You'll find it gets better the more you do it.

jb

 

[paulears]

No it won't. Nothing legally provable by that at all. It's an internet myth that needs to die.* So don't waste the stamp. If your idea is so great, spend $35 and register it with the US Copyright Office. That's bulletproof.
.

Things must be different in US law then - it's been proven over here to be quite a legitimate tool, and is even referred to quite often here in the press as a viable method of proving copyright in the music industry. The premise is very simple, and is evidence based, so even in the US I cannot find any argument against it preventing it's use in court. In fact, with forensic examination now becoming a deeply accurate and scientific process, it's pretty simple to provide the envelope to a forensic lab and have them certify it hasn't been opened - something that is quite a normal event for them, keeping in mind the security aspect of proving terrorism.

If they can categorically state the envelope has not been opened and re-sealed, then the court would have to accept the contents are in effect, a time stamp of the day they were delivered. Opening the package in court would be evidence that would be difficult to shake.

I suspect this is an internet myth of the myth. Obviously the forensics costs money - but if a piece of your work is stolen, and you can prove it, then costs are not really your concern.

There's a UK government instruction on copyright protection and it advises the envelope in the mail method.
http://www.ipo.gov.uk/c-basicfacts.pdf

Copyright protection in the UK is automatic, we don't have to do anything, and the law is on our side - is US law failing to protect you all?
Paul

 

[John Brawley]

Things must be different in US law then - it's been proven over here to be quite a legitimate tool, and is even referred to quite often here in the press as a viable method of proving copyright in the music industry. The premise is very simple, and is evidence based, so even in the US I cannot find any argument against it preventing it's use in court.

Can you cite any actual examples where it's actually been proven to be a legitimate tool ?

These guys say you can't bring a case in the US without having it registered with the copyright office.

"Before a lawsuit can be brought in federal court, the plaintiff must obtain a federal copyright registration or show that he or she tried to obtain a registration but was denied – without either the case will be dismissed. The federal courts will not substitute a “poor man’s copyright” for a federal copyright registration."

http://www.intellectlawgroup.com/articles/poormans.html

Every country has different laws with regard to intellectual property as well.

EDIT. There's also this wiki entry. Note the heading *flaws*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_man's_copyright

jb

 

[Steve House]

..Copyright protection in the UK is automatic, we don't have to do anything, and the law is on our side - is US law failing to protect you all?
Paul

Copyright is automatic in the US and Canada as well but proving YOU are the one who created the work in question FIRST is a bit more dicey. Two parties are claiming to have created it - who is the court to believe is telling the truth and what evidence supports their claim?

 

[Peter Reynolds]

Share your ideas, don't hide them

Share your ideas, don't hide them

So I have a new movie idea that I feel really good about. I know I feel good about it because I am becoming paranoid as hell as to who I tell. Is there any sort of copy right for story lines? I am afraid of talking to a producer about it and getting denied and then seeing my idea at cannes 2016

People are too worried about having their ideas "stolen". When I first started out, I too felt
paranoid about sharing my ideas. The best advice I was ever given was this:

"If you think your idea will be stolen - it will"
And if that's the only idea you have - you're in the wrong business".

Once you have a script, you can register it with the Writer's Guild of America ($22) but until
then, share your ideas with your friends and colleagues. Forget confidentiality agreements.
Get them excited. You'll find it's a great way to inspire yourself.

Peter

Writer's Guild of American How To
http://www.ehow.com/how_2352393_register-script-writers-guild-america.html

.

 

[Chamber005]

I have two people in my life who are allowed to read what I write and who I speak with about plot points, characters, story arcs, etc. Both an invaluable source to ward off insanity. Get yourself one or two trusted people (preferably even a sibling if you can swing it -- or if your parents swung it anyway) and talk with them about the trouble spots in the piece. Even though I have people I trust I never SPEAK ALOUD the complete context of the story or script. If you believe writing to have any sort of spiitual identity you, like me, may be of the thinking that "putting something out into the universe" exposes and reveals it to the consciousness of the world.

When I was younger I used to have stories that I would tell my dad and then a book or movie would pop up with a similar premise. Heck, I knew a guy once who told me, "Why don't vampires just go to Alaska?"

As people have mentioned, you can't copyright an idea. And if you have a GOOD idea (even if that idea is just a moment, a realization, see: The Sixth Sense), you're best not talking about it and exhibiting it randomly. Write down your treatment and speak in whispers to the few who you confide in until the film is COMPLETE and ready to be SOLD.

People who think ideas aren't worth stealing don't have ideas worth stealing and so thinks no one else does. If you look around and nowhere do you see your idea ever having been executed, and you think it's a good idea, chances are you're right. Trust your instincts and clam up.

 

[Chamber005]

People are too worried about having their ideas "stolen". When I first started out, I too felt
paranoid about sharing my ideas. The best advice I was ever given was this:

"If you think your idea will be stolen - it will"
And if that's the only idea you have - you're in the wrong business".

Once you have a script, you can register it with the Writer's Guild of America ($22) but until
then, share your ideas with your friends and colleagues. Forget confidentiality agreements.
Get them excited. You'll find it's a great way to inspire yourself.

Peter

Writer's Guild of American How To
http://www.ehow.com/how_2352393_register-script-writers-guild-america.html

.

This is good advice to filmmakers, not writers. Filmmakers "come up with" good ideas that become better ideas via collaberation. Writers create great ideas with no help at all.

Doesn't mean a writer's idea can't be improved upon, it just means that he is in the business (or spiritual way) of creating and uncovering stories. A writer is the ONLY person, IMO, who can do this. Writers are the miners, everyone else is on the assembly line.

Don't believe advice like this. It's a sales tool used by idiots who want to know what's knocking around in that head of yours. Kind of like, "Everything's been done."

Everything most certainly has not been done. But if you're a writer, you already know that.

 

[Peter Reynolds]

Don't believe advice like this. It's a sales tool used by idiots who want to know what's knocking around in that head of yours. Kind of like, "Everything's been done."

Everything most certainly has not been done. But if you're a writer, you already know that.

Veiled insult aside (not quite 7 veils, but at least 4) I must respectfully disagree.

Ultimately it's a question of degree, yes you don't want to let everyone know all the
details of a unique story your developing, but neither do you want to be paralyzed by
paranoia. Going down that road often means those ideas "knocking around in that head
of yours" will stay right there, enjoyed by an audience of one.

Peter

 

[David G. Smith]

"The contents of your head are the property of Capital Pictures".


Does anyone know of any successful, "You stole my movie idea" law suit? I guess a lot of successful flicks are hit with them, but has anyone ever heard of one being won or of a big settlement from one?

 

[MichaelP]

Buchwald v. Paramount (1990). Art Buchwald claimed that Paramount stole his script idea and turned it into COMING TO AMERICA.

Michael

 

[David G. Smith]

Oh yeah. That one made the headlines, but mostly for the Paramount claim, during the compensation phase, that even though the film had made over $200 Million it still did not make a "Net profit".

The actual case though was a breach of contract law suit as opposed to a copyright infringement case, in that Paramount had optioned his treatment, but ended up making the movie (or similar enough of a movie) with out giving him credit or paying him. Oops!

 

[Barry_Green]

Here's one where Time Warner was sued for stealing the idea out of a screenplay and turning it into "Six Feet Under"; Time Warner won. And this is highly relevant; the author gave the screenplay to her chiropractor, who offered to give it to the head of HBO for consideration. Three months later, HBO launches "Six Feet Under." But -- and here's the big thing -- they didn't steal the author's screenplay. They developed a series which is quite similar to the central ideas in the author's screenplay. The district court and Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals held that they weren't similar enough to warrant the plaintiff's claims.

The court determined that the works’ few similarities operate at a general, abstract level and that no jury could reasonably find substantial similarities between the two works. Accordingly, the court granted HBO’s motion for summary judgment.​

As for cases that are still before the courts, here's one to watch to see how it turns out:
http://famewatcher.com/2009/02/robert-cabell-vs-adam-sandler-sony-and.html

Another one, not about movies but still about ideas:
http://www.popcrunch.com/elisabeth-hasselback-sued-for-stealing-book-idea-the-g-free-diet/

Another one in progress, Adam Sandler being sued for stealing the idea to Zohan:
http://www.rfcexpress.com/lawsuit.asp?id=44448

Mark Burnett being sued for stealing the idea to "The Apprentice":
http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/the_apprentice_2/2004_Sep_17_lawsuit

Kate Hudson being sued for stealing the idea of making hair care products from volcanic ash:
http://www.schwimmerlegal.com/2008/09/kate_hudson_get.html

Chris Rock being sued for stealing the "Good Hair" idea for his doc:
http://newsone.com/entertainment/ch...ion-accused-of-stealing-good-hair-movie-idea/

Hollywood suing Bollywood for plagiarism and stealing ideas:
http://www.elanthemag.com/index.php...ues_bollywood_but_is_stealing_a_2_way_street/

Facebook founder sued for stealing the idea of his social networking site:
http://www.elanthemag.com/index.php...ues_bollywood_but_is_stealing_a_2_way_street/

Electronic Arts being sued for stealing game ideas:
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/sports/maddennfl2006/news.html?sid=6140734

Disney being sued for stealing the idea to "Hannah Montana":
http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/08/24/hannah-montana-show-not-girl-sued/

Fox being sued for stealing the idea to "Prison Break":
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4181/is_20061024/ai_n16849547/

Tyler Perry being sued for stealing "Diary of a Mad Black Woman":
http://filmdrunk.uproxx.com/2008/12/tyler-perry-stole-the-idea-for-black-women

Sony being sued over stealing the ideas in the God of War video games:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/sony-and-jaffe-sued-over-god-of-war


So, look -- there are three ways that we can look at this:
1) Hollywood and authors and producers and videogame makers and bloggers and columnists are all a bunch of rampant idea-stealing thieves, and that's why they're getting sued so much;

2) Hollywood et al are all innocent, and a bunch of delusional bloodsucking leeches are ready to pounce on any work that shows any sort of box office return;

or

3) Ideas exist. Many people have them. When an idea pops in the universe, it pops into more than one head. Lots and lots of people have the same idea at the same time. When an idea's time has come, it has come.


Frankly, I think all three have elements of truth. There are unquestionably greedy leeches out there willing to pounce on any success (but that does not make all these lawsuits without merit!) I think there are definitely idea-stealing thieves (but that does not mean all these lawsuits have merit!) And there are definitely cases of multiple people having the same idea, without ever contacting each other. In Robert McKee's Story seminar, he makes the point pretty clearly -- ideas are a dime a dozen, everyone has 'em, and lots of people have yours; he told us a story of a hollywood reader who said "If I ever have to see one more script about them cloning Jesus from the Shroud of Turin, I'll scream!" Yet, you just know that if anyone makes a movie with that premise, the lawsuits will come out of the woodwork.

So the moral of the story is: people are going to steal your idea. Or, they already have the same idea and are going to develop it on their own. So if you have this "great idea", you'd better get to work now, because you can just bet that the race is already on.

 

[Barry_Green]

True story: two days ago I was talking with someone who has a line of stuffed animals, and we were tossing about ideas for the next one to make. I suggested that she make a "hippopotamoose"; bolt some moose antlers onto her hippopotamus doll and, hey, there you go.

She spent thirty seconds googling and found this:




Hmmm... maybe I should sue 'em for stealing my idea?