How to convince the perfect people to be in your film?

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Snapper123

Well-known member
Hey guys, I'm having an issue. With one film I want to do, I honestly wrote it with two of my very unique looking friends in mind, both are teenagers, the guy is a tall, burly, Jack Nicholson-looking guy and the girl, well if I'm mentioning The Shining as it is, I'll go ahead and say that the girl happens to look just like Shellie Duval. It's very neat, because these two people seriously look perfect for a classic horror film, the guy happens to be a stage musician who already writes great music that fits the film idea perfectly, the girl happens to be interested in acting and she's a great fashion designer, and best of all, they are already a romantic couple and need extra money.

Thing is, I'm having alot of trouble convincing them to be in the film when it finally happens. We haven't talked about it alot, but while they were originally all for it, they have lately been giving extremely cold shoulders concerning the topic, and thing is, it's hard to picture doing this film without them. I seriously could not have picked better people for the two roles, and I couldn't find two people that looked like them if I tried. Especially when it comes to native personalities, artistic attributes, collaboration ease, ect ect. I just don't know I'd ever feel right making this film without them. So what are some things I should say?

Mainly, I'm looking for ideas on how to convince these two that this film really would generate lots of income for them, would help out their future careers in a very respectable way, ect ect. I mean, I think they are somewhat aware of those things, but possibly are starting to ignore the idea based on the fact they may not like me personally, or they don't believe I can do it. But thing is, if I'm able to create this film with all my inspiration in tact, I'm fairly sure it would go on to make at least $3,000 in the first couple months alone, with a decent film tour and self-promoted DVD distribution. And I'd be giving them 1/3 of that each, which is really good for their current living standard. Just, I think they somewhat don't believe they can do it, they somewhat don't believe I can do it, they somewhat don't like me, they somewhat think they are too busy to do it, ect ect. Bunch of malarky but what to do? They also aren't business people, having contracts or anything like that would only scare them away further!

I'm personally thinking about telling them there will always be weed on set....

But yeah, if anyone could share any experiences or techniques that have really convinced your actors to take the production seriously or accept a role when they were otherwise doubtful, please share! As it is, I figure I just need to film other material first and show examples of how professional my stuff can be, but even for that stuff, I don't really have actors... I can't even convince my friends to be in my crap!!!
 
I'm fairly sure it would go on to make at least $3,000 in the first couple months alone, with a decent film tour and self-promoted DVD distribution. And I'd be giving them 1/3 of that each, which is really good for their current living standard.
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There is ALWAYS someone else that could play the role...but, if you have to have them, pay them up-front. You're only talking 1K (which, depending on how many days you would need them...isn't much at all.).
Good luck with the film.


...oh...and I don't think the weed on the set is a very good idea (save that for after the shoot!).
 
Ok, I have to start here...

Did you really tell them you are sure it will make them money? Have you even produced anything that has sold before? It could well be they think you are full of crap. I am NOT saying that you ARE full of crap but I have been involved with indie films for more years than I care to count out loud and I can tell you this....out of some 60 I have done (only listed the best few on my resume)...I have never seen one dime of income. So, starting right there...don't make a promise of income you cannot be 100% sure of. And unless you have money to pay them up front, you honestly can't make that promise.

Now, lets put all of that to the side and talk about what you might be able to do to convince them. Be honest. Tell them you can't picture anyone else doing these roles. Tell them (and mean this 100%), you will do what ever you can to make it easier for them to do this project. Let them know the passion behind it. Try that tact.

If that does not work, ask them to be straight up with you and tell you why they don't seem interested anymore. Tell them to be dead honest and be prepared to 'maybe' hear some things you won't like. But until you know what their real objections to this project are...you won't be able to counter them.

So, find the objections and then get back here so we can see if we can figure out how to counter things.

As for weed on set...did you really just post that on a public forum? I am all for legalizing but dude...that is a sure fire way to end up with cops dropping by your set and you don't need that. Keep things like that to yourself in the future...not on a public board!
 
Part of your problem is your place in the arc of current actor/filmmaker relations.

I hate to reveal my age, but when I first became involved with indie filmmaking -- over thirtyplus years ago -- it was an extremely rare thing. Only a few of us were brave (or stupid) enough to attempt it (at least, in my region). Everything was on 16mm or 35mm film and that was extremely expensive. So, when someone was proposing to make a movie, actors were falling all over themselves for the opportunity. They'd work for free. Hell, they'd pay you!

Then came video. Now, every kid with a camcorder is an independent filmmaker. And most of them know precious little about what they're doing. The visceral bravado of "Just do it!" often replaces intelligence, planning and skill. Needless to say, most of their films would make you toss your cookies -- if they get finished at all. Not only is there ZERO chance of distribution, any actor appearing in these monstrosities will have to live-down the experience (if ever they do develop a more promising career). Appearing in those cinematic messes would only be an embarrassment (and something you'd have to conceal on your resume). So, the actors have since become very jaded.

This led to actors demanding to see some proof of the filmmaker's competence -- up front. That usually takes the form of MONEY. However, this part of the story arc is now beginning to pass as well. It turns out, most actors really aren't worth much money. And unable to make a living at their art, they are now finding (even with a union card) they're not even doing their passion much anymore [even for free].

So, just wait a little. What goes around comes around again.

Karma, baby.
 
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So the "perfect" actors for your film are two people with no acting experience? Since both are unknown entities, I'm not really sure that their "look" matters that much. An unknown face is an unknown face. If you WANT them to look like the cast from The Shining I think you're opening yourself up to a world of hurt by going there.

To me, the perfect actors would be two people that can play the roles with convincing performances that will wow the viewers so they don't care that they don't recognize them.
 
"The biggest casting mistakes are based on appearance" - Casting Director Michael Shurtleff, who cast Dustin Hoffman for his debut film role in "Goodbye Columbus" when the casting description was for a tall athletic blonde - and the rest, as they say, is history. From his excellent book "Audition".

Believe it. In low-budget indie films, always cast for acting ability first, and appearance second. Probably one of the *worst* things you could do for (to) your film is the reverse, although, unfortunately it's a very commonly made mistake. If you've got bags of money to cast great actors, then you might have the luxury of choosing which one you like the look of better...
 
Snapper123 said:
while they were originally all for it, they have lately been giving extremely cold shoulders concerning the topic, and thing is, it's hard to picture doing this film without them.
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Don't do the picture ... sounds like it will be a total failure.
I'm looking for ideas on how to convince these two that this film really would generate lots of income for them,
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Why tell a lie? Your picture wont make a cent, and you know it.
I'm personally thinking about telling them there will always be weed on set....
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That would just reinforce their opinion that you don't know what you're doing.

if anyone could share any experiences or techniques that have really convinced your actors to take the production seriously or accept a role when they were otherwise doubtful, please share!
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Best technique for that is to give them a lot of money up front.
 
Just use common scene. If you cast off of looks then just know you'll have to work harder to get the perfomances.
 

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My philosophy is not to cast the actor that fits my preconceived notions of who the character is. Rather, to cast the best actor. And I say this to the extent that I will re-write the role to suit them.
 
Zak Forsman said:
My philosophy is not to cast the actor that fits my preconceived notions of who the character is. Rather, to cast the best actor. And I say this to the extent that I will re-write the role to suit them.
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+1...Also, if you spend any length of time in Los Angeles or New York, you will probably make friends with aspiring actors, and you can write stuff that you know suits their innate talents and personality.
 
When writing a treatment or script it's very common to use real acquaintances to help "visualize" as we're setting words to paper.

That's where it absolutely needs to stop. Michele, Zak & Ted are spot on.
Your film will stand or fall on performance, not appearance. If they can't act, the audience will absolutely not give a s@%t how pretty they are. Do a casting call or two or three or nine - see the threads on how to do this. Making a movie is hard enough. Cast / crew enthusiasm is critical.

Best wishes.
 
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Zak Forsman said:
My philosophy is not to cast the actor that fits my preconceived notions of who the character is. Rather, to cast the best actor. And I say this to the extent that I will re-write the role to suit them.
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+1 But it's not enough to have the "best" actors for each role in a vacuum, not only must they be good actors, but the actors who will be in scenes together need to have the right chemistry.
 
thisisapocalypse said:
+1 But it's not enough to have the "best" actors for each role in a vacuum, not only must they be good actors, but the actors who will be in scenes together need to have the right chemistry.
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Right, and that can be very elusive...

In a project I acted in as well as helped cast, an actress was chosen (by the director) who for some unknown reason seemed very uncomfortable around me, which I sensed from the moment she walked into the audition room - very little eye contact, awkward conversation and body language, etc. But apparently, only with *me*; as I observed her interactions with others, things seemed relatively normal. Her mysteriously personal discomfort with me continued throughout the filming, to my ongoing puzzlement. I should add that none of the other cast or crew evidenced anything resembling this 'issue', nor has it come up in any of the many other productions I've been involved with as an actor. And again - it was apparent to me the moment she walked in the door...

And, no, to the best of my knowledge, I didn't say or do anything that could explain it, and I spent a pretty fair amount of time replaying the relevant events in my mind to be sure I didn't miss something. I drew a blank.

Confounding, I tell ya...

The good news is, we didn't have to do any scenes together (whew), so it never amounted to anything more than continued awkwardness as we hung around the set (a rented suburban house) waiting for our disparate scenes to get shot...which was plenty weird enough. But boy - if we'd had to do a scene together I have to say I would have had to battle hard inside to stay in the character and the moment while keeping this particularly befuddling bit of odd chemistry at bay.

I probably would have tried to talk it out with her - see if she'd acknowledge that there was an 'issue' first of all (which I suppose she might have denied - after all, it was just a 'bad vibe' I sensed, as opposed to any overtly negative behavior), then tell me what it was, then let me somehow talk her down from it...but those were all very 'wild-card' solutions; anything could have resulted, including making it worse.

So yeah...actor/actor chemistry can certainly be a factor : )

Sure hope I never find myself in that situation again...especially if I *do* have scenes to play with the person in question...
 
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Ted Spencer said:
"The biggest casting mistakes are based on appearance" - Casting Director Michael Shurtleff, who cast Dustin Hoffman for his debut film role in "Goodbye Columbus" when the casting description was for a tall athletic blonde - and the rest, as they say, is history. From his excellent book "Audition".
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This is such a good observation. Some of the people I've cast in my current film were not exactly what I envisioned, but turned out to be awesome and almost all of the one I seconded guessed come across well on screen. Also what I've experienced is simply posting what you're looking for on Craigslist or hit theater groups, etc and you will get what you need. Keep putting it out there and if it's interesting enough people will come. I agree with others you have to show them you know what you're doing and you may have to simply cast others. You say they're perfect, who else have you looked at?

-Nate
 
I have made the mistake of casting on looks, it was a disaster. Now I have rewritten parts to fit a better actor, once even changing a boy character to a girl because she was so good.. My last film was a SAG shoot, there is a difference. Always go with talent, they will raise your work to another level.
 
Also. the first question talent agents often ask us is "Do you have the funding?"
No Pay No Play
 
Are these friends of yours even actors ?

I'd never beg anyone to be in a piece. If they're not enthusiastic, then find someone who is.
 
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