How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

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I just bought my first lighting kit - an Arri with a 1K open face, 2 - 650's fresnels, 1 - 300 fresnel, and a chimera softbox. I'm psyched.

Now I don't know much about lighting, but I'm the type to just dive right in - so that's exactly what I'm doing. Tonight, I'm staying in my apartment, and I'm practicing lighting. I am going for a film noir look, very hard light falling on my subject from overhead - the room is completely black.

I have 2 huge bay windows that let in a fair amount of city light (NYC), so I can't get it completely black. What I want is for my beam of light to stand out - sort of like how light beams cut through fog - although I don't have a fog machine. Do I have to have the room completely black? Do I need a certain kind of light - b/c I'm having no luck with the barndoors. I can focus my light but, it's still blurry - I want edges on my subject.

Also, my lights seem to leek a lot of light out the back - esp. the fresnels which let light out the back. How can I control this spill? Cinefoil? Can I use tin foil as a substitute? I just can't get the room dark enough.

Any advice to get that really noir/detective look going on? Should I have a backlight on my subject?

Thanks in advance.
-Damon
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Now I don't know much about lighting

Me, either.

I have 2 huge bay windows that let in a fair amount of city light (NYC), so I can't get it completely black.

Hmm...without the lights on (just the spill from the windows) try closing the iris until the picture is too dark. Then turn the lights on and don't readjust the iris.

I can focus my light but, it's still blurry - I want edges on my subject.

You'll need to block the light aways in front of the lights. The further away the blocking thingie is, the sharper the shadow edges will be.

Any advice to get that really noir/detective look going on? Should I have a backlight on my subject?

It's been so long since I've seen one of the flicks, but since you're going for darkness, you'll probably want some light in back to dilineate the subject from the background. Hmmm...that's called a rim-light, right?

Dan
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

I helped a gaffer cover windows with the tint you use for a car window. It comes in different transparencies or really blockage. We used 35% but you can get em up to 95% blockage and still see through. He just taped it the window frame being careful not to crease it. Don't peel the adhesive. Don't know if that helps ...

Moe
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Thats alot of wattage inside an apartment.

Have you considered using scrims? Bouncing the light instead of direct? Using flags to block and direct the light?

A combination of the above should help while also stopping down somewhat and not allowing all of the light in.

Id love to see what you accomplished!
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I'm still working on it, but when I get chance, I'll post some stills of my progress.

-Damon
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Also get yourself some duvatyne and black wrap.
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

LMFAO!!!! I bought my first light kit a couple of weeks ago (lowell lights, DVCreator Kit 55 - couldn't afford the Arris - I'm jelous!) and this is EXACTLY what I did!!! In fact I'm in post with it now having just finished writing the music for it and mixining it, I'm now adding adding one piece of foley and titles tonight. Hopefully, I'll have something to post by the weekend.

The first shot is me walking down the hall to my apartment and there wasn't much I could do to controll the light there so it is not as "Noirish" but once in the apartment there was a lot to work with. I did a lot with the barndoors and distance. I wanted long diagonal streaks of light (for example cutting a door in half with a slash of light) and found I could achieve just that result with a Lowell omni light. I placed the light high and at a forty-five degree horizontal angle to the wall with the door. Focused the beam pretty tight, spun the barn door attachment so that when I closed up the doors I had the right diagonal slash of light, it came out great! Then I added other lights as needed.

One thing I found especially useful for this type of look was using certain small spots on crystal. In the short there is a crystal candlestick holder, decanter and ashtray (all at different times) so for example when I enter the door, with the lighting as described above, I also put a small spot (Lowell Pro) on the crystal candlestick. You can't really tell its lit other than it has a nice subtel sparkel to it and it doesn't affect the rest of the scene - I like the look alot.

The most difficult part for me was doing this all alone. At the end there are two short scenes (the whole thing is only 5min.) with my girlfriend and that was easier because I could just operate the gear, but for the rest of it, I was the only one around.

Good Luck!!

Matt
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

"What I want is for my beam of light to stand out - sort of like how light beams cut through fog - although I don't have a fog machine."

Go to the set shop on 21st Street and by a can of smoke. Its an aerosol can that creates a smoke effect.

" Do I have to have the room completely black?"

It will help a great deal/

" Do I need a certain kind of light - b/c I'm having no luck with the barndoors. "

A sharper light than just an open face fixture is best. a Fresnel works, and a leko works even better.

"Also, my lights seem to leek a lot of light out the back - esp. the fresnels which let light out the back. How can I control this spill? Cinefoil? Can I use tin foil as a substitute? I just can't get the room dark enough."

Black wrap is what we use. You can buy that at B&H. Yes you can use tin foil. Get some wooden cloths pins to help hold it all together.
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Hey Matt, great stuff. Can I offer some observations?
- It might have helped to have put lower wattage (25-40W) lamps in the hallway to let your Lowels set the mood.
- Beautiful lighting on the candle stick when the door opens.
- Wire shelving in the closet - not so much. Out of period.
- NICE shot entering the bedroom. I liked the back light on the wall until I noticed that the table lamp was OFF, so there was no motivation for that back light. A 25W or 10W refridgerator bulb would have been enough in the table lamp to show that it was on.
- The armchair scene was the Noiriest of all. It could have been Bogart sitting there!
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

Thanks so much!! You know, I just started reading about lighting and just the other night started learn about how to use "practicals". Man this almost seems like more trouble than it's worth! Someday I'll figure this all out.

I didn't actually use any of the Lowels in the halway. I shot that around ten at night and just used the available light. Hmmmm..... Maybe if I shot at three in the morning and no one was around......

I think you're the only one to notice that I lit the candlestick! Bravo!

Matt
 
Re: How to control overflow, Noir scheme...

[quote author=MattC link=board=lighting;num=1097974995;start=0#10 date=11/08/04 at 21:17:53]Man this almost seems like more trouble than it's worth! Someday I'll figure this all out.[/quote]
Someday you WILL figure it all out and it will be second nature. And when you start looking at your footage and will be able to say, "Man, that looks so cool", it will have been worth every minute of reading, asking questions and practice. We shape the light to establish the mood and direct the eye and then we make a moving picture of it.
 
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