How to Capture Audio for a Roundtable Shoot

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DP StrangeLove

Well-known member
I have been wrestling with how to best capture sound for a Roundtable Shoot.
I will be shooting a Roundtable discussion, think "Deadliest Catch" roundtable scenario. There will be between 8 - 10 people sitting in a semi-circle, and the conversation will be captured in a two camera shoot.


Originally, I thought of having a Boom OP, but I think that might be a little awkward for the shoot, since the talent will just be sitting down. And I'm sure if the Boom-Up will be able to keep up with conversation if it is between far sides of group. Also, I would like to have as little crew as possible.

How would it be to just placing an omni-direction Mic Mounted (on a C-Stand) above and center in the group? Could I get away with this set-up? What mics would you recommend? Should I use a omni-directional? Should I use more mics? Calling any/all Audio Gurus!
 
JordanBlock said:
You could use a PZM or two on the table.
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How is the sound quality of the PZM? Do they give a barrel/tunnel sound to the audio? Which one would you reccomend?

I am not sure if there would be a table to place them on, would rather just shoot the group sitting in a half-circle w/o table in front.

How about setting up two omnis on c-stand stands above and pointing down on group? Having each focusing on 1/2 of the group. Or maybe use an omni on conjunction with the PZM?
 
DP StrangeLove said:
How is the sound quality of the PZM? Do they give a barrel/tunnel sound to the audio? Which one would you reccomend?

I am not sure if there would be a table to place them on, would rather just shoot the group sitting in a half-circle w/o table in front.

How about setting up two omnis on c-stand stands above and pointing down on group? Having each focusing on 1/2 of the group. Or maybe use an omni on conjunction with the PZM?
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If you're going to mount them above the groupv firing down I'd go with cardioids instead of omnis in case there's bounce off of the ceiling.
 
Like any mic, the closer the mic to the source the better, I have a couple Crown PMD-30Ds that I use on occasion for conferences and such. The only issue you would run into with the PZMs is noise from the table itself, ie people messing with papers, tapping the table, etc.

Overhead mics would eliminate the worry of table noise and let you keep the table clear of mics and cables. I don't know how you're setting up, or whether or not it matters in this case, but bringing on a couple decent boom ops might be preferable to having the c-stands in some of your shots.

On edit: As Steve notes, overhead Cardioids would likely be better than omnis.
 
2 skilled boom op's each covering half of the table. I would go with hypercardoid rather
than a shotgun if possible so off axis voices sound a little smoother.

Leave it split track so you can turn down the mic thats not being used later.

Usually the problem in that situation is people seem to love to light
that kind of situation with a softbox coming straight down on the table making it tough
to get a boom in without shadows.
If your gaffer/dp brings the straight down chimmy towards camera just a little
you'll be able to get in just fine.


A number of different ways to go about this, but this would be my prefered way.
2nd would be wiring everyone.
 
The shoot is with a bunch of winemakers sitting around talking about their experiences, etc. The conversation is going to be pretty spontaneous, and fast, so not sure if I want to have a boom-op in case if they accidentally get in the shot since there won't be any breaks to re-take, or frameline checks.
I am considering an idea of possibly placing a table in front of them, with wine bottles, glasses, so that I could also place a couple of PZM. I don't think they would be moving the bottles/glasses of wine too much, mostly used as a prop so they can talk about their individual wines, but probably some drinking, tasting too. Would that pick up too much with the PZM mics?

Would you do a combination of PZM and overhead Cardoid, or one or the other?
 
any noise such as bottles or glasses being put down will pick up loudly on a pzm. 2 boom ops would be best. if thats not an option, hang 4 cardioids. place in between every other person( or go for 4 pzm on table). 1 mic = 2 people. you have 4 tracks between the 2 cams. just know that sound will sometimes be off axis or sound a bit more distant depending on whom is talking to whom.

other option is mic 8 people. since they are sitting, you could save $ and hardline lavs as opposed to wireless.

shouldnt worry about boom ops in shot. if you let them know what the widest your shot will be, they will stay out of frame line. its fairly simple since talent will be seated
 
I also suggest PZMs. If you're worried about table noise, put them on something like a mouse pad to cut down on any rumbles.
 
DP StrangeLove said:
I love the little DIY tips like that. Thanks!
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I'll give you a cheaper and easier way that I use when doing this. Head to your local carpet outlet, and ask for a scrap of good carpet padding. The one's near me usually have TONS of scraps in the dumpster, and they dump daily.

You can get some AMAZING stuff for no cost. For placing PZM's on the edge of a live stage, you'd be amazed at how well this stuff works. You can even trim it to the shape of your mics (I have Crowns and Audio Technicas that are different shapes) and you can spray them black so they barely show at all.
 
Automatic mic mixer and hardwired lavs! I always suggest this in a large spontaneous group discussion because it you don't mind seeing lav mics its the best sound you're going to get even if the acoustics of the room are not so good. I've done groups as large as 25 at a table with very good results. An alternative would be to multi track the individual mics and send a scratch mix to the cameras. Between the two cameras you have four inputs so you could iso groups of mics to the two cameras. If you're a good mixer you might not even need the multi track just the four isos. Of course in post you would cut out the unused tracks and your noise level is greatly reduced. I've also miced groups with hyper cardiods from below, but that gets tricky. It can be difficult to hide the mics and still get them close enough. You would also be aiming up and if air conditioning is noisy at all you get more of that.
I love boom mics and how they sound but if you don't have the crew, the acoustics, or the lighting situation you need. This is the way to go. Its not crucial to have matching lavs, but its important to have good quality mics and you need the time to rig them as well.
I've been doing locationa and studio audio for 30+ years and have done many of these types of shoots so I hope you find this information useful.
Bernie
 
That sounds like it would be the best way to go for quality, just not sure if I can get my hands on 8 individual mics. Also, I won't be able to have someone mixing during the shoot, do you think I would be able to get away with pre-setting the levels before shooting, and keep them there and start rolling?
 
Bernie is suggesting something like this, an automatic mic mixer. They're generally used in conference rooms and the like. If I recall, the one from Shure doesn't have XLR inputs because its meant to be hardwired, but surely one of the other manufacturers has something a little more ready to go for this sort of situation.
 
JordanBlock said:
Bernie is suggesting something like this, an automatic mic mixer. They're generally used in conference rooms and the like. If I recall, the one from Shure doesn't have XLR inputs because its meant to be hardwired, but surely one of the other manufacturers has something a little more ready to go for this sort of situation.
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The Shure can be outfitted for xlr. It has barrier strip connectors on the back. The rental house I use have them outfitted that way and ready to go. You can also gang multiple units together for more channels. If no one can mix during the shoot than this is the way to go. The unit has a limiter built in so if you set your levels first you should be fine unless they get either real quiet or real loud during the taping. Its a simple one knob per channel control so if you do need to adjust the level its pretty simple. If you're renting the mixer you can likely get eight matching lavs from the same place.
Bernie
 
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