How to capture 25p ?

matteo_tgv

matteo_tgv

Member
Hi there,

I am a quite new and non-active meber of this forum (but I am reading almost all the threads almost each day). I am from Romania (by the way: Dracula was just a story :huh: ), so I am a PAL user (25p).

I currently use a Panasonic NV-GS400 camcorder but I will buy an AG-DVX100B soon.

I currently use the Vegas 6 editor, which I consider an excelent one (despite that I actually make captures with Premiere Pro 1.5, because they look sensibly better).

So, I am having few questions, if it's OK with you (please don't laugh of my lack of experience regarding this issue):

1. In playback, does the DVX output 25p ?(no long ago, someone was telling me that it playsback 50i, but in manner that makes it easy to retieve the 25p)

2. Can I use the Vegas 6 to capture 25p ? <<I am asking you this as in the template settings I did not find this option, only something that says: Pal DV(720x576, 25 fps), and, on the other hand in the NTSC there is NTSC DV 24p(720x480, 23.976 fps) >>

3. Which VTR is recomended for 25p playback? (none of those I checked on the internet seems to have this option)

4. Is there any technical problem (or damage, in time) if I use the camcorder for capturing and editing, instead of buying a VTR?

5. Is there any PC version of the FCP?

All the best,
Dan

P.S. I've seen the 5 seconds movie with the flying/rolling car. Man, that is outstanding!
 
Whatever the camera shot, Vegas captures. Saying that Premiere gives you "better looking captures" makes zero sense. DV is DV is DV coming thru the firewire line, it's just bits. It's impossible for Premiere Pro to look any different than Vegas or Canopus if captured down the firewire port.
Needless to say, there isn't an app I'm aware of that captures 25p over firewire, but can capture a 25p stream in a 50i package. Which is what Vegas automatically does, if you cap via firewire.
 
Spot,

tks for your reply. It is very comprehensive regarding the 25p capture issue.

Yes, I know that technically there is no diference between captures, no matter the application you use for that. DV is DV, right.

But, please try to make a test. Capture same thing in Vegas and Premiere and try to watch it closely afterwards. Please let me know if you found differences or not.
(Maybe there are capture codecs that we are not aware of? Even if the capture is absolutely uncompressed ...).

Also: some time ago I captured using Windows Movie Maker (DV mode, no compression). The result showed more obivous interlace artefacts. On the other hand, in the exact same material, on the same computer, Windows Media Player Classic (it can make captures) was offering visibly better results.

Listen, I do not want to be stupid, but this is only what I experienced. This is my humble opinion, that's all.

If I was an expert like many of you guys here, then I wolulnd't have asked for help or info.

Please try to consider that I'm just a newcomer in your world, just one that tries to try the ocean with a fingertip.

Best to everybody,
Dan
 
Dan,

Don't worry. I work with a DVX100 and 25P. Capturing is the same in all editing software, no quality differences. Capture your footage from the camera in DV PAL AVI format. 25P is nothing more than 25 full photos per seconde, written down in 50 interlaced fields per second. That's why every tv-set can play your footage directly from the camera, it's just interlaced information on the videotape. Just like playing a Hollywood movie from a VHS tape on tv. The difference is the source of those 50 fields per second: that is 25 full photos and that gives you the filmic look and not the videolook.
After capturing there are only 2 simple things you have to remind during editing and rendering to dvd or tape:
1. set your Vegas project file to 25P (progressive, in stead of lower fields)
2. render to MPEG2 (dvd) or AVI (tape) in 25P (=progressive)
It's much more simple than the NTSC people who have to use 24P pulldown methods, you only work in DV PAL format, AVI of MPEG2 in progressive mode. And.... we PAL users also have a higher resolution!!
 
As Pesie reiterates...no difference. It's just a data transfer. Like copying a Word file from one computer to another. Bit for bit, it's the same.
I've captured in virtually every app out there from Adobe to Ulead, and DV is DV so long as you are using firewire.
 
Guys,

tks for your replies. It seems that I have to accept your arguments.

However, somebody, please try to reply the other questions, too:

4. Is there any technical problem (or damage, in time) if I use the camcorder for capturing and editing, instead of buying a VTR?

5. Is there any PC version of the FCP?

Tks a lot,
Dan

P.S. As I do not have a Pay Pall acount, I already asked a Canadian friend to buy and send me Barry's DVX Book (I'm anxious to have it and study it !)
 
4. No. BTW, you use the camcorder for playback so that the computer can capture the data to harddisk, then starts editing all on the computer. So you don't use the camcorder during editing. You can a nice preview with Vegas on your computerscreen. So you can leave the camera in the bag during editing.

5. No, there isn't. Sometimes Vegas is called the FCP for Windows, in stability, features and workflow. I'm not familiar with FCP so I can't confirm that. But I know Vegas is a great working tool on the pc: rocksolid, nice and fast workflow, professional features and great audio (5.1 Dolby Digital).
 
Pesie,

tks for you reply.

Because you mentioned the preview window of the Vegas:

I am wondering if the content of that preview window can be out played (full screen) on an external TV (is there any way?) without previous rendering -- just during editing and aplying of the CC and all the stuff. (now I'm using the GS400, but I am afraid this can also happen with my future DVX)

I am asking this because: in the preview window, things look in a certain way. Then, the final product (mpeg2) looks nice on the computer full screen, even if a little different from what it shows in the preview window.

But (here is the huge problem!), after writing it on a DVD and playing it in a dvd player on a normal TV, it looks worse: less colours, less resolution, less detail, less averything ... Even the black is not really black, it's more lightened. Adjusting the colours, contrast and brightness of the TV, offeres no better results.
And picture looks different, even the CC results are different on the TV...

And I am talking about a good TV, not an old one. On flat screen TV (trinitron) you get slighltly better colours, but the resolution is still low.

Anyway, the main problem is how to be able too see the final look of the product.

All the best,
Dan
 
Yes, you can doing a good preview output to a 2nd pc-screen (Vegas 6, use a dual output videocard in your pc) or via the firewire-output (several Vegas versions). You can connect your camcorder to the firewire and connect a tv to the camcorder, using the camcorder as a digital to analog convertor. This is not adviseable IMHO, I use a realtime convertor from Canopus to do the conversion (ADVC110). This little box can convert 2 ways so it's a very welcome little box. I have a tv connected to the ADVC110 and you'll see the preview of the tv screen in realtime. Using a lot of videofx lowers the framerate, but you get a very useful color preview. A faster pc makes the preview smoother regarding the framerate.

In the past I learned to you the colors in the preview screen on the pc screen, how they would come across after MPEG2 rendering and burning it to dvd. I got rather experienced in this, but the ADVC110 and the tv-set makes in more easy.
 
Peter,

the ADVC110 devide seems to be the best option. But, it costs something ... and now I need to concentrate on funding the DVX. So, until then, I have to work with what I have now.

So, my graphic card has TV-Out ...

Is there any possibility to set the Vegas 6 to output (via TV-out port of the graphic card) the full-screen real-time preview for my TV ? (I want to use a normal TV, not a computr screen because the look is different on a computer screen).

Sorry for bothering you with so many questions.

All the best,
Dan
 
No, you can't use the graphics card' output for accurate viewing. You can use it, but understand that it's only for seeing what's in the media, but not for color correcting or accurate pan/cropping, because it's not an accurate output. It's color controlled, and processed in the video card. You CAN use the camera to act as a DV to analog converter until you can afford a converter box.
 
I'n not sure if that will work, don't think so. There is a Matrox videocard that has a driver to do full output like that on Premiere Pro, but I don't think it will work with Vegas. Try to calibrate your computerscreen that the video-output on dvd matches as much as possible with the preview on the computerscreen. You could use your camcorder for that, as a temp. digital to analog convertor. Watch the tv-screen and calibrate your pc monitor to match it as good as possible (don't play the timeline, in that way you are able to see the preview on the pc-screen ánd on the tv via the firewire > camcorder > tv connection.
 
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