How to build torches?

Baluardo

Baluardo

Well-known member
Hello,

for a music video I'm shooting this week, some locations with caves have been chosen. The band will play on the entrance of one of the caves.
To add depth and make the background more interesting, i would like to add some torches and fix them to the wall. I mean real torches.

I guess the principle is to soak a rag in some flammable and then wrap it in a safe way around a stick (not flammable).

Do somebody know how to do that? what if i wanted to make a torch the main character would use as a source of light to get into the cave?

Also, i will accept suggestions on how to fix this stuff to the walls of the cave.

Thanks all,
Andrea
 
Working with real fire is always a trick. I guess you could find a piece of wood, and cap it off with a metal banister or something, and wrap your cloth around the metal part... soak the wood in water as well, so the heat won't catch your wood on fire.

That's just a suggestion. I'm sure there's an easier and more efficient solution.
 
Fireproof a wooden rod (waterglass solution, if you can get it...I think it's "real" name is sodium silicate). Wrap an end with burlap, and soak it in kerosene.

That should o.
 
I'm sure you are a responsible adult :) , so forgive me if you have already thought about all this, but...

there are of course safety implications. If the material is too soaked and drips fuel, then anyone holding it may get blazing liquid over their arms and hands, and possibly set fire to anything flammable on the floor. I suspect "real" torches use some sort of non-liquid gel or solid fuel.

Also, beware of fuel fumes collecting in an area. Certain fuels are dangerous at certain concentrations with air - the video could end up being explosive in the wrong way!

Be careful where and how you store unused fuel, and have extinguishers of the correct type easily to hand (water would not be good on a fuel fire).

Would be very cautious in experimenting -would be worth waiting until someone with pyrotechnics experience posts an answer. Or better still, get in touch with a special effects company or professional pyrotechnician.

You also risk invalidating any insurance cover you have if fire on a production is not properly supervised.

If you choose to go the DIY guerilla filmmaker route, be aware you have also chosen to take a risk. Only go ahead if you are very certain you know what you are doing, and have adequate plans to deal with accidents.
 
And speaking as one nearly decapitated by an exploding bonfire, taking these concerns seriously may save a life...

The wise bonfire designers wanted to make sure the burning arrow would swiftly light the kerosene-soaked bonfire materials and so added a bit of gasoline to the mixture. Gasoline vapors, a six foot deep hole, and three tons of wood make quite a bomb.

Blew out windows in a three block area...

Sent five people to the hospital... Thankfully, all recovered without permanent injury.

I was sooo glad I wasn't the guy in charge.

Moral: get a pyrotechnics expert, borrow a willing firefighter, but don't assume you've thought through all the possible ways this could go wrong.
 
ericyoung said:
If you choose to go the DIY guerilla filmmaker route, be aware you have also chosen to take a risk.
Click to expand...

Just as a point of interest, the method I wrote above was the method used by Hollywood folks back in the days before people started suing because their coffee was too hot, not a DIY-yeah-this-might-work method. :)
 
GenJerDan said:
Just as a point of interest, the method I wrote above was the method used by Hollywood folks back in the days before people started suing because their coffee was too hot, not a DIY-yeah-this-might-work method. :)
Click to expand...

Interesting!:laugh:

All the same, as we're talking possible 3rd degree burns/blast wounds here rather than a scalded mouth, I would rather be overcautious than regret someone getting hurt.

Are you sure it was kerosene rather than some other fuel? What kind of burlap was it? My point is unless you personally know all the exact details of a working method which was once determined to be safe, can you be sure you're being equally safe?

If it's just me that gets hurt, I'm happy to take risks. As soon as other people are at risk, I get real fussy about safety. Even working for a broadcast TV company with very strict safety rules, there have been fatal accidents. Why tempt fate?
 
Wrap some canvas tightly around the top of a good stick, sharpen the bottom if your going to stick em in the ground.

Wrap the canvas with wire. Soak in kerosene for a about 30-40 min (depending on how long it takes for the kerosene to soak it's way up the canvas).

voila, a good torche that will last about 20 minutes or so.
 
Kerosene makes a thick black smoke. squirt on lighter fluid is probably a better choice. Any BBQ lighter fluid will do. Usually if something is mounted to a wall I find a way to pipe propane to it, then you have a controllable flame that you can turn on and off at will. But that takes a pyrotechnic technician. If you're going to make practical torches, the stick (Closet pole, with black wrap or foil around the flaming end) , instead of cloth, consider three Tiki torch wicks wired onto the end of the stick. Keep buckets of water and a fire extinguisher handy. If you're going to use cloth, wrap it with wire, or better yet a metal screen material. As cloth burns it tends to unravel and drop burning bits into the talent's hair...not a good thing. The screen helps prevent that. Bring extra cloth and plenty of extra torches. You'll only get a short period of good flame out of them, so be prepared for that.
 
Definitely follow filmmaker58's advice. For those that don't know, he's a licensed pyrotechnician and definitely knows what he's talking about.
 
thanks all for the advices.
About safety, i'm a son of a firefighter and i've been raised being VERY aware of such dangers.

I will try the lighter fluid and kerosene and will see the difference. the cave is very big but i dont wanna end up in a mess of black smoke.
I think that, rather than trying to stick torches to the walls, i will just put them on the ground. i was thinking to maybe put some previously soaked canvas in open metal tins and hide the tins with stones so just the flame coming out would be visible. or just stick torches to the ground.

about letting the main character take a torch and start making his way into the darkness, i understand the issue with dropping burning stuff and I'll probably just let him walk in withouth a light (maybe trying to create a walk-into-the-darkness effect)..

thanks again for the suggestions. will post you results when i'm finished (hoping it's not a screenshot of the whole crew running around with burning clothes):)

Andrea
 
Just to let you guys know, i made the torches in some way and they worked fine.
I didnt see anybody running out of the cave wrapped in flames so i guess we did things in the right way :)

My dad (retired firefighter) worked with me building some torch holders to be put on the ground, made of thick iron wire and a small plate to hold the torch itself. the plate had a very short border in order to keep possible liquid inside but not limit the burning capability (experiments i did where the whole thing was inside a tin didnt provide big flames).

The burning core was made by burlap and cotton rolled together (to absorb more liquid) secured with iron wire. I had to keep the size relatively limited in order to prevent excessive smoke generation in the cave (especially when they were about to die). i had nice flames of 25-35 cm (10-13 inch) pretty consistantly.

I made tests with bbq liquid and tiki torch liquid (oil) and they were very similar. tiki torch oil fire was more consistant and durable (slightly smaller flame i think), and way safer than bbq liquid (even if poured in quantity it would catch fire very slowly) so that was my choice. Each torch would provide about 20 mins duration.

we also used a hand held one based on the same concept (still with a small plate made cutting the bottom of a coke can to prevent nasty drops on actors' hands) and that provided very cool lighting effect on the actor's face.

I will post a couple of screenshots right after acquiring footage.

Thanks all for suggestions. very useful, as always.
Andrea
 
Glad things are working out.....

I did want to know (or ask) if you had considered diesel fuel...??? It doesn't have the high flash point that gasoline does... does it...???

Just curious...
 
Steward said:
I did want to know (or ask) if you had considered diesel fuel...??? It doesn't have the high flash point that gasoline does... does it...???
Click to expand...

well, no, I haven't considered it. I kind of wanted to avoid use of 'real' flammables for safety issues. As i told before, what i used was really safe and worked well. I am not sure i would take the chance with a more dangerous liquid.
Also, duration is an issue. i have the feeling that a more flammable liquid lasts less..

Andrea
 
for those of you who wanted to see the torch effect i got, you can see a very rough on-working bit (where you can also appreciate a star-trek-first-series special effect with the same actor twice in the shot:):) ) at
http://www.baluardoproductions.com/sample.mov (1.4 MB)
http://www.baluardoproductions.com/sample.mpg (4 MB)

just wanted to include sample shots of the torches. the torch he's holding is not burning completely (just on top) since i didnt want to exagerate with the liquid. Also i probably didn't give it time to soak and start burning completely. but i like the effect

:)Andrea
 
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