How to build a multi camera system

avp

avp

Well-known member
I am charged with putting together a 4 camera system with a somewhat limited budget. What it needs to do:

1) 4 HD cameras (4k not needed)
2) Cameras must be less than 1K usd - likely consumerish - 3 of which will be located about 40 feet from switcher
3) Switcher that will output to streaming device (likely an already-on-site computer),
output to external recorder,
and output an analog signal for cablecast.
4) The recorded signal must be immediately available for upload.

I was looking at using Panasonic HC-V770K cameras, HDMI out to Blackmagic HDMI to SDI micro converter (for the long cable runs).
Input to Blackmagic ATEM TV Studio Pro HD (or Blackmagic ATEM TV studio HD)
Output to Hyperdeck Studio Mini for recording
Output to ???? to get a USB 3.0 signal into streaming computer.

Two unkowns I have at this time:


1) Is the Hyperdeck
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._design_hyperd_stm_hyperdeck_studio_mini.html
a good solution for immediate file acquisittion and upload or would perhaps the Datavideo HDR 1
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304649-REG/datavideo_hdr_1_standalone_h_264_recorder.html
be a better solution or...?

2) What would be the best way to get a USB3.0 signal from this system into the streaming computer?

Any help or suggestion would be appreaciated.

Cheers - J
 
Or even a Sony PMW-F3.... if you don't need to change the zoom/focus much during a scene! Otherwise the EX1 makes more sense with its larger zoom range built in.
 
Great suggestions and much appreciated. Definitely will look at the Atomos line. The budget has been set at (unrealistic?) 5k but with flexibility to perhaps 4x that...but will need to cut through red tape for that to happen. Upgrades in the future are a consideration as well.

My thinking is, for now, build around a decent switcher (either the BM Atem studio had or the pro version) using consumer cams and upgrade those in a couple years.

I’m all for spending the $$ up front but sticker shock may scare off the decision makers.


Cheers.
J
 
I am in the middle of the same process.

What is your timeline? I am in testing now.

IN preliminary research, I was quite impressed with the image quality of the DVX200, XC10mk2, XF405, GH4, F3, BMPCC, BMPCC4K, whiule still having good zoom options. The EX1 is starting to look dated.


My scope is a little different since I do not need a switcher, the content will be eited
 
Perhaps the Convergent Design Apollo, which is a switcher and recorder in one. It can also be your monitor to start, which is another cost you didn’t mention. How can you switch between four cameras without seeing the feeds? The Apollo will record all four source feeds as well as the switched feed simultaneously. Plus it will output a Quad split view of the sources (indicating switching if you like) as well as simultaneously output the switched feed.

I used to work for the company so I know the product well, but I don’t have a horse in this race. Just think it might work for you.
 
Thanks for the input.

Mitch-The Apollo looks like a great unit. I should have mentioned possible need for more than 4 inputs which is why I’m looking at the ATEMs. And yes, I also failed to point out outputting to a “multi monitor”. Appreciate you taking the time to respond.


James-Your scenario I am very familiar with. We shot a reality series (52 episodes) with multiple iso cams...non switched with a post edit. Really quite a bit different than a live switched, event driven production.

That being said, we did use the DVX200 for 3 camera positions and 3 GH4s for additional coverage and a few gopros here and there. I won’t get into reviewing any specific camera - there’s a ton of great info here and elsewhere - but you can get great images from either one. I have no experience with the other cams you mentioned. Thanks for your reply.

J
 
Don't forget about Clear - com. You're gonna need to communicate to your camera ops.
 
Ear-Tec intercoms are cheap and decent.

The BMD Hyperdeck recorder is DNxXX or Prores, not an upload codec.

The Datavideo works OK, we use one in our studio and it creates nice HD files ready for upload. The only issue is that it is a little slow. It is really just an AverMedia Game Capture Pro with a custom control panel on the front. Let's not argue about this, I have both devices and the USB when formatted actually still says Avermedia. But cheap and works OK, even on the lower bitrates.

What I would do is buy an AJA Helo so that I could not only record, but stream live.

Alternate choices would be a good computer and wirecast, or one of the small Tricasters. You get a lot of function in one box including stream encoding and connection and recording.

You didn't say what you will be doing with this, are you going to have human operated cameras? Are the cameras going to need to move positions or just pan, tilt, focus, zoom?

I ask because I'm putting together a demonstration system for work, something simple that breaks "tradition" for simple 4 person, small studio productions sitting behind a set (table). Podcast type of things with two people on set, 3+ fixed position cameras, an audio operator to mix the two mics, and a person to "direct", switch, etc. using a computer. Starting small using 3 HD webcams, open sourced Open Broadcaster, and an audio interface with knobs on the front. We will grow after we prove it works and beg for money for something like a Tricaster and better cameras (probably fixed position PTZ remote cameras).

Yes I said webcams and their horrible wide angle, but there is a twist. We will be recording and streaming 720/30 because that's all we need for web content right now (the internet sucks around here). The webcams can do 1080. These webcams can also be set to 720 where they over sample, or you can "zoom" in to the 720 resolution eliminating the wide angle for tighter shots. Mounting location can be on the other side of the table (literally) so the entire set is small.

Our trickiest part is lighting, we don't have what we need right now. This is going to be placed in a room with windows in the background. We ordered some cheap reflective window tint (don't want people walking by to act like idiots because they see cameras). Probably need two layers of the tint to block enough light. Going to need to buy some cheap daylight LED lights to put up, not sure what we well do for our first test recording. Our college currently does audio podcasts on college related subjects, we are going to test on one of these podcasts and see if we can produce something with the webcams. Webcams are currently about $17 each on the used market so it's cheap to start, the active USB cables are going to cost more as we expand this testing.
 
We have a clear com system...in a box...in storage. Unfortunately, this will be a one-man-band sort of thing. No camera operators. It truly is a juggling act. Two of the 4 cameras are locked down, one is near (3 steps away) the TD/Switcher, and the fourth is within arms reach. Far from ideal.
 
I'd budget for remote PTZ cameras, decent HD versions are anywhere about $1000 each and many have SDI output.
 
Thanks for the reply Greg.
The Hyperdeck is out - thanks for the info. The AJA Helo, unfortunately, puts us out of budget so I am proposing the Datavideo unit. I haven't been wild about Datavideo products in the past but we'll see. I looked at several PTZ units and again, budget is the concern. I wanted to allocate a good chunk to the switcher to allow flexibility for additional inputs so am suggesting the ATEM TV Studio Pro HD.

Here's what the complete proposal looks like if that may be of help to others. You may note I included an HDMi to composite converter. We also have to send a signal for cablecast

View attachment VIDEO SYSTEM UPGRADE PROPOSAL.pdf
 
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So far the only complaint about the Datavideo is that it is slow! Press the record button, and wait several seconds before the LED lights up to tell it is recording. I'm not sure what the actual amount of time between button press and recording to drive is, but I'd give myself a few seconds of extra. We normally start recordings at about 15 seconds to "air", I do the same for the live stream when we are streaming.
 
I looked over the proposal, and without looking at the latest features on that switcher, it seems to be OK with one or two big omissions:

#1 I'll assume you have tripods, wall clamps, etc. for the cameras

#2 what are you doing for audio? I didn't see any mixer, no microphones, etc.

I assume you are going to run the audio mix into the switcher so that the output has embedded audio which you'll need for the recorder and stream. What kind of choices do you have for audio delay (or video delay) inside the switcher, the chances that it syncs perfectly with that many devices in the mix are low, you may need to delay the audio by a few frames.

One other choice might be the Ross switchers, I think they just came out with a new small model, might be worth looking at before making a final choice. We have a Ross Carbonite in our studio, seems to work fine. https://www.rossvideo.com/products-...on/production-switchers/carbonite-black-solo/

Also check the features of the BMD and Ross switchers, I think one of them could record an h.264 mp4 directly to a flash drive, this could save the money from the Datavideo recorder.
 
Greg_E

Yes, we have all the mounting for the cameras. This is an upgrade to an existing SD system. Also, audio is covered but thanks for the question.

I looked a the Ross offerings - runs up the budget a bit too much. That being said, which switcher records and H.264 directly to a flash drive as I don't recall seeing any (Ross or BMD) that have that feature?
 
I don't remember which one, but I would think BMD first. Might be an option that didn't really work out very well and might have only been an older model.
 
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