How much to take off from the rate?

Patryk_Rebisz

Patryk_Rebisz

Veteran
Question to the folks who own lots of gear.
I'm dealing with a pesky client - client i worked for a number of times but each and every time i have to fight for the rate - they always try to undercut it, for that mater i have passed on a few projects because simply put the rate they were squeezing was too low (they have their roster of their crap cameramen who probably shot it instead). This time it's a 3 day job and they are trying hard for me to bring my gear (extensive gripology and HMIs) for close to nothing. I offered to take 40% off from regular rental house prices and give the gear for 3 days for price of 1.5 day but they still only want to pay for 1 day.

I don't need the money so i'm comfortable walking away but i just wanted to hear your opinion if i'm being unreasonable. (i want to get paid for 3 days and get 1.5 days - at 40% less than rental house - on the gear).
 
Every market is different, and mine is no exception. Locally I have found many of the smaller to mid-size ad agencies don't want to deal with rental fees. They want an all inclusive price. So I offer all my available in-house gear included as part of a package. But, I raised my day rate to cover the cost. I then give my very best clients a preferred client discount, which lets them pay the rate they were paying before I raised my rates up to cover rental costs. For grinders like you are dealing with, when they say we only want to spend X, rather than dropping my rate, I tell them, well X will only get you a half day.
 
Patryk_Rebisz said:
...the gear for 3 days for price of 1.5 day but they still only want to pay for 1 day.

I don't need the money so i'm comfortable walking away but i just wanted to hear your opinion if i'm being unreasonable. (i want to get paid for 3 days and get 1.5 days - at 40% less than rental house - on the gear).
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You're not being unreasonable. This is one of those clients that will continuously want more and more. While we all want to help our clients, some clients will keep pressing until there is nothing left. They either will respect your talents and efforts and pay your rate or they will move on and grind down another person. You have to cover the wear and tear of your equipment along with your time and effort to provide it. Next time, they will want the equipment for free. Pick your breaking point and stay with it.
 
I find that breaking down the kit into smaller sizes helps a lot in those circumstances - i.e. if they can only afford X amount for gear, then they'll get A and B lights, but not C and D; and they'll get E, F and G grip gear, but not H, I or J.

Putting a dollar value on the individual items of equipment seems to help producers (especially the cheapskates) understand that if they want 'The Full Package', they have to pay for it. And since you'll already be undercutting rental house rates anyway, when they look up hiring in those missing bits of kit individually, they're more likely to appreciate the value you're already offering them with your full kit.

it's an approach that certainly works quite well for me... particularly if the video split monitor is one of the first things shaved off the 'reduced kit'!
 
It really depends on your pricing for your lamps, but in the Bay Area and LA it's not uncommon to do a 1 day on lamps for a 3 day rental. Things like generators and trucks would be billed at 3 full days though. What we have noticed is in LA is they will jack up the unit prices and bill for less days to make it seem like more of a deal. So they might make it so a 1k baby is 50/day to rent, but they'll do a .5 for 3 or 4 days instead of 1 day at 25. You see the .5 though and think you're getting a sweet deal, but it's all just moving numbers around.

Best thing for you to do is talk to a rental house and get a quote for what they're renting from you and just match them. Definitely going to be different for each market.
 
Be prepared to walk away. Tell them you just can't afford to pick up jobs like theirs. You have to be careful word doesn't get out and your discounted rate isn't passed around as standard.
 
Sounds like a client you DON'T need. Times are different and it seems everyone is "overly budget conscious" now, but some people are just cheap and want everything for nothing. And this client sounds like #2. "We REALLY like you and want to use you, just not enough to actually pay you". I don't have much of a problem with trying to work with a clients budget, but there are limits. And I don't give away gear like rental houses(5 for 7, etc.). I'm NOT a rental house. If I'm shooting, the gear is billable. Period.
 
walk away - if you don't need the gig, stick to your rate - you'll be doing yourself and any every other operator a favour - these guys only barter because they can get away with it.
 
These decisions aren't as hard for me, yet. I still don't own so much that I need on most shoots, so HAVE to rent, which means at a certain price it becomes clearly silly to take the gig since those rental costs are firm. If I owned the cam and everything else, I would be willing to compromise quite a bit. . .but still only up to a point.
 
You're not being unreasonable, at all. Of course most clients are going to try to cut the price down from the first quote. But after working several jobs for them, they should have an idea that you're already giving them a deal. So to keep trying to cut you back-- well, they've reached the point of being disrespectful to you. If you're not hurting for work, I just wouldn't budge. I've decided a while back to not actually turn jobs down after reading about law suits over people turning down photography jobs. Of course, these involved politically hot issues, but it made me realize that I don't know if it's actually legal to outright turn down clients. You set your pricing and availability, though. So I would recommend that if you have to turn away a job, that you always make it clear that the reason is either that you can't meet their budget, or if you really aren't available.
 
I like post #2 and I've done this before. Tell producer/director/whoever you need X lights which cost Y and yours are not available right now, or you don't have them. It keeps things in check and just because you own them doesn't mean it should be free. I'm ok with 1/3 or 1/2 rate off rental house prices but beyond that I tell them to %@&! off for the most part.
 
Or tell them they can get it for the the price of one day IF it's available. So if they want that cheap price you cannot guarantee the availability and that if someone asks to rent it three days for the full price you have to do that, cause you need the money (even if you don't). The price of 1.5 days reserves the gear for them even if someone else comes along.
 
^ Yep, fight fire with fire.

I stopped listing all the equipment I own for that reason - everyone wants it free. Now its better to say that I get deals 50% off from local rental companies I do business with when I need equipment, etc.. and no one needs to know where I get my equipment from or what I own or don't own.
 
Patryk, any update on how this shook down? I'd go with post #2 and say that your gear may already be rented out for that day, and then link them to CSI or one of the more expensive rental houses in the city!
 
I ended up telling the producer that to get the best deal she should check with all local rental houses and get the best quote so she doesn't feel like i'm taking advantage of her. Of course i knew i would end up being the cheapest. Needless to say she agreed to the rental rate.
 
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