How Hard Is It To Sell 200 DVDs?

P

prexdealer

Well-known member
Hi,

I am looking into investing some finishing funds into a super low budget movie. It is a teen horror with lots of gore. I am not worried about promotion because this person seems pretty connected and will get the word out. The sound is a not great but will get some cleaning. 200 DVDs shouldn't be too hard to sell do you think? I think it will have 2 of the 3Bs (blood and boobs, no beast).

Shot on a Canon DSLR, takes place in a house, a basic film. The producer has put in her own money, but mine would be repaid first. So she has incentive to sell as many as she can.

Appreciate any input.

Thanks.
 
Ummm... is it any good? DVDs at what price? How bad is the audio, and why? What will be done to fix it? Is there any kind of "easy" market (friends, family, students at High School where it was shot, community of town featured in it, etc.? How much money are they talking about you investing, and what percentage would you get? What guarantees you'll be repaid first? "Connected" how, to what? Get the word out to who?

Too many questions here for any kind of answer... but somehow to me from what you've written, it sounds pretty shady.
 
They are asking for about 2k in finish funds. Most of it is being spent on gore by a special fx company. It suffers from some of the issues with no budget films, and the sound person was inexperienced and am I am not sure on the equipment used for sound. The producer is in the industry and can generate buzz, I am not worried about that. I am insisting that she gets as much gore and blood as she can and can edit it out if needed, better that then realizing it isn't gory enough. I filmed in LA.

I would draft language about first priority in payment, rights to see the books, it would be an LLP. I would be the limited partner and she would be the general partner. I don't think this movie is going to rise above the general noise of micro horror films except for the fact that she can generate buzz. And that it needs to earn 2k to make me whole. I like helping others out just need to make sure there is a reasonable chance of doing so.
 
Is this a finished product? Can it go back into post? If not, I wouldn't touch it. It sounds like a project you may have to pay people to take the DVD. Creating a buzz from a producer is something I would leery about. If the producer knows the issues with the product, and is still willing to push it, that send up red flags for me. Are the visuals THAT good? So much so, they overcome the audio problems?

Sure you might end up "selling" 200 copies, but what is that worth? If it gives you a bad rep in the industry as someone that settles for not second best, but way below that............it may hurt your chances down the road.
 
In the past ive bought a selection of 'low budget' dvds, that was on sale from HMV. I think i paid 30 pound for 50 dvds. The dvd were b-movies, and i wouldnt buy any film again without researching the film/reviews/plot and crew.

Good luck with your endeavour
 
Blood and gore aside, is the story solid? Can the audio be repaired or re-recorded?. Who is the demographic for the film?

If a company is wanting to spend this kind of money on SFX and needing help (someone else's money) to do it and not already thinking about what post costs are going to run them, well? That means some very poor money management and a sinking ship. It sounds like these guys have no clue what they are doing, and are expecting others to bail them out of their poor financial planning (or lack thereof).

What if you do invest and that gets the SFX done. How are post costs going to be paid? Are they going to hold the DVD hostage until you or someone else forks over money to finish it? If that happens and no one ponies up, then where is your investment now? No Return on Investment, not even any copies of the film. You could negotiate into your investment contract ownership rights to the film itself, rather than copies of it. Have this expire upon delivery of the first agreed upon terms. It won't do you much, but at least you will have ownership if they cannot get further funding. With that ownership, they cannot sell the film without your okay and your percentage.

Like I said, tons of red flags for me waving and hitting me in the head. I also noticed the "200 copy thing", which tells me these guys are using a gray area to skirt the SEC rules about investments. You are "buying" 200 copies, not investing, supposedly. But since this is a "pre-purchase" of a product that is possibly not even going to be completed, they could still get busted by the Securities and Exchange Commission in the US, as this could be still considered an investment. Another portion of bad juju.

I forget the name of this type of legal issue. But there is a name for this, and it can get them in serious hot water with the State, the IRS, and the SEC. Run.
 
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Only a portion of the investment is for FX, the remaining is for post. I am not buying DVDs it is an investment. I was just doing the math, I think 200 DVDs will recover the investment. My investment would be repaid first.

I sent the teaser to a friend of mine who does sound and he said it was ok considering no post was done. It is not theatrical release level quality. I saw the IMDB of the composer she will be using and he has done numerous projects, mainly shorts. But this is a super micro budget film, so I am not expecting the world in resources. I read the script it is entertaining enough for a teen horror movie. The script has enough "hip teen talk" in there that it does give it the teen feel, versus some where you say "teens don't talk that way."

I wish there were some examples of micro films that sold at least a few hundred dvds. I would then check them out to see how it compares.

Thanks for everyone's input and patience. Just trying to hash through this opportunity.

R
 
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200 DVDs at what cost will hey you your investment back? I think your math is way off, notwithstanding all these other issues. Who's going to pay $15 to $20 these days for ANY DVD, much less a microbudget teen horror flick? And, having shorts on IMDB is not really a useful indication. Did any of them make so much money or win so many awards that the people would be likely to buy a DVD based on participation of the relevant individuals?
 
I can understand if you don't want to divulge this information, but this is an interesting discussion and I guess there's no reason not to... so can you tell us the overall budget of the film, how much has been invested already in what parts, what the total finishing budget and plan for the film is, etc?

Being "paid first" is a wishy-washy concept at best, and almost always means, at best, paid first from any income beyond COST. Where cost ends is iffy, and it's very common for participants in a film to be promised a lot "once costs are recouped", but it's rare that costs are recouped. And, make sure you have a clear contract and budget, because "costs" may include, say, a $50,000 fee to the director. Extreme? maybe, but take it as a warning... unless you have a contract that details EXACTLY what "paid first" means, with complete budget, list of investors, etc., you have no idea if or what you'll ever be paid. Keep in mind there are always more costs than planned for.

Remember also that everyone but you has something to gain from this project even if it makes no money. Everyone will be trying to spend the budget on things that will make their personal effort look best, not on what will, on balance, make the film most profitable.

Anyway, please share with us as much detailed information as you are willing to, and you'll get lots of minds processing your questions! Can we see the teaser?
 
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Hi everyone! Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I actually went to the location last night and watched it being filmed.

"Interesting" experience:
- A shotgun mic
- No wind protection (it was interior so not a lot of wind - but there was a scene at the door which was open)
- No one listening to the audio even though they had headphones
- Through a mixer that no one was adjusting levels
- To the DSLR

I have been on a few sets before and the audio was handled professionally so this was quite a sight.

I understand the costs aspect since I have invested in another film that is in post. Some day, once it has been sold, I will be happy to discuss that experience, right now it is in post. And it was very lucky in the sense of all the resources that came together to have it shot on a low budget.

For this teen horror, there would be a lot of effort to paper this deal properly. A random tangent, but when investment banks do deals (IPOs, etc.) they spend almost the same amount of effort on a small $100M deal as they do on a $1B deal, but the fees are higher on the $1B deal. I have written legal documents before for other deals I have done in other industries. I am also hung up on liability exposure and when the fx get done, sure they do it for a living but if something happens, ugh.

My biggest concern is the audio and the quality is ok to poor. There is hum in the audio, a little echo in one scene in the teaser. A bit of me just wants to help the gal because I like helping people, but my other inclination is to make her stop production have her bring in the people that worked on my other movie and re-shoot it professionally from the beginning. I find the script funny and appropriate for a teen horror. I may just advance her some money for her to write me teen horror and she can use the money, however she wants.

I am pretty paranoid so I am worrying about a lot things regarding this transaction. I imagine that the complexity of the document to make me comfortable may turn her off, it is a rare combination dealing with someone who is artistic and also has business sense, that is my experience and being in LA I come across a lot of Hollywood people. I am not sure if she wants a detailed discussion on use of proceeds and the waterfall table.

My buddy, who line produced the other movie, said the fx company looked pretty weak and he could arrange better fx for less.

I think I am mainly interested in helping her out and being around that indie vibe. But for every 1 microbudget teen horror movie that I hear about that is being filmed, I am sure there are a 100 I have not heard about. I spoke to an actress friend of mine and she said that she knows lots of people who make movies just hoping to catch lightening in a bottle. She says that for 85% of them, the best they can hope for is to get into a crappy festival that exists mainly to make money off of submission fees. Of those 85%, only a small % get into those crappy festivals. I love the creative aspect of film making but always boggled by the economic risks involved. The one movie I invested a large chunk of money in had all the variables I needed t overcome my apprehension. It was a rare opportunity.

So I just wonder who is going to buy 200 DVDs of a poorly made movie? And even if that many are sold, how long will it take? And what effort is involved in tracking down this person that I barely met. Structuring a limited partnership may require a business filing in CA and that is another 800 bucks. My risk vs benefit mind is telling me I need to limit the liability exposure since I have no control over this movie. Separate bank account, potential conflict (she may not like questions), etc. These questions have been with me from the very beginning. My main question was if anyone had sold dvds on their website before. Granted there are key variables that drive sales: promotion and quality of film. This movie would be the 1000s of low budget films that flood distributors/sales folks hoping they will watch it. And I would be embarrassed to ask my friends who are connected to sell this movie. So I wouldn't. I just would like to help this person out because she seems sincere and hard working. I have no "interest" in her. I just like helping down to earth, hard working people - as long as I initiate the reaching out.

There must be 1000s of these tiny budget teen horror movies, right? Anyone seen one that was any good? I don't have permission to show the teaser, so I can't.

Thanks.
 
Hmmm… "interest" in her might be the most (only?) compelling reason to get involved in this. There are plenty of sincere hardworking people suffering out there these days; this girl will be OK. 200 sales won't come near covering your investment. Seriously, examine your motivation here, it doesn't make sense. Why do you choose to invest in films at all? Can you afford to lose these investments? Why not donate to a nonprofit film group and at least get a tax benefit?
 
Believe me, Prexdealer, I know where you are coming from. If I had my way, I would finance a bunch of films, just to see them get made. I have read that many GREAT scripts. But when you step out of the role of philantropist, and start wanting to make a return in your investment, your mindset has to change.

It may seem cold and impersonal, but your money (and also time) have to see a positive return, or you may not be able to invest in any other film.

You seem to have some good people around you giving you sound advice, plus you are recognizing issues that may absolutely kill the project in the end. What is your "business" gut telling you, despite what your heart is saying.
For this teen horror, there would be a lot of effort to paper this deal properly. A random tangent, but when investment banks do deals (IPOs, etc.) they spend almost the same amount of effort on a small $100M deal as they do on a $1B deal, but the fees are higher on the $1B deal. I have written legal documents before for other deals I have done in other industries. I am also hung up on liability exposure and when the fx get done, sure they do it for a living but if something happens, ugh.

My biggest concern is the audio and the quality is ok to poor. There is hum in the audio, a little echo in one scene in the teaser.
Click to expand...
Is it really worth what you are wanting out of it? A "little hum" could require a pro audio post studio to get rid of properly. That could be $2000 plus right there. No one monitored the audio, you said. Then the audio could be completely un-usable for all anyone knows.
 
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I sort of envisioned my film making career as doing professional grade movies (my first movie is one of those) that have strong distribution possibilities and then super low budget movies where I just get to be more involved and it is for fun. But my business side always gets in the way when I start thinking of losing any more than a $200 for fun. I have given strangers a couple hundred bucks when I felt it was the right thing to do. But once again it was my choice and I wasn't asked for the money.

But business is business. And I just can't see this working out even though I want to help her out. And really I have no interest in her in any way other than film making.

I have acquired some audio equipment maybe I can offer her some help with adr, etc. Even though I have never recorded anything.

My analysis just tells me if I want to give a movie a legit chance of success it needs to be adequately funded to get the cast needed to please distributors. So we are talking at least $250k (we could debate this but this is what I figured based on lots of reading, speaking to professionals, and my own experience with my first movie). And with 250K there may be deferred still. And it has to be a genre that sells, sorry dramas. Granted horror can be done for less because the cast isn't as critical. To me, these $250K+ movies require a lotmore professionalism because of the money at risk, and therefore, some of the "fun" and carefree nature of a no budget film are lost. Sigh, I want to have the joy of film making but my business mind is always in the way, plus my responsible behavior complex makes me also want things to be insured and that is $$$ even for a low budget film.

Maybe I should just get a puppy! LOL.
 
Then.........separate the two sides. Do it for the love of film-making, with no expectation of any return (in this case it probably won't occur)........or for a profitable business. Rarely the two merge, and when they do, the sun shines brighter for you. But it is rare.

Decide what the reasons are for your involvement. If they are business, think business. If it is for the love of the project or film-making in general, gift the money to them.
 
Absolutely correct, Doc. That is my internal dialogue now. But I still am curious if there are people on this board who have sold DVDs on their website and how successful they were at it. It "seems" like 200 wouldn't be hard, but everyone is saying it is. This is a tough business!
 
Now we are back to the original question. If the product is not good, how are you going to convince anyone to buy it? You could sell a million of them, if it was great, and you had great marketing. But the second you sell something as if it was good, and it wasn't, people are going to be highly upset. Especially when you know it isn't.

That goes to an ethical debate, and I don't know many people that are going to support you selling something even you say is probably not very good (audio and SFX). And if you do, and it gets out, your name gets smeared in the industry.
 
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