I've heard a lot of people mentioning the use of a backup recorder, but I havn't been able to find out how it's used. Is it something that gets picked up if the main recorder somehow breaks down, or do you connect it to the main outputs of the recorder/camera, so that you are essentially using two recorders at the same time?
How do you use a backup recorder?
- Thread starter Jema
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Rick R
Veteran
Normally, I use a backup recorder when sending audio from my mixer to a camera via a wireless system, (aka, 'camera hop') in case there are issues with reception. Most pro field prod. mixers have at least two sets or outputs, usually balanced (XLR) and unbalanced. (1/8" or TA3) I usually don't bother with it in a sit-down interview situation, where the mixer is hard-wired to the camera.
Richard Crowley
Veteran
It isn't really possible to offer any details since we don't know what you are using now. As Rick R explained, it is pretty simple if you are using a discrete mixer. Simply feed the output of the mixer to the primary recorder (camcorder if that is what you are doing?) and another output from the mixer goes to the backup recorder.
Using a backup recorder means that the backup recorder is running anytime the primary recorder is running. You typically don't have time in the Real World to go back and check each shot/scene/event and do "take two" after the backup recorder is brought out and connected up.
Using a backup recorder means that the backup recorder is running anytime the primary recorder is running. You typically don't have time in the Real World to go back and check each shot/scene/event and do "take two" after the backup recorder is brought out and connected up.
John Willett
Veteran
For me a back-up recorder is a complete system - second set of microphones going directly to a second recorder.
This is doing a complete duplicate recording, so if the main one fails the back-up is always there to be used.
This is particularly important when you are recording something that cannot be repeated (eg: wedding or live concert).
This is doing a complete duplicate recording, so if the main one fails the back-up is always there to be used.
This is particularly important when you are recording something that cannot be repeated (eg: wedding or live concert).
I currently alternate between using a mixpre in front of an R-4 Pro or FR2-LE. So using this setup and having the LE as a backup, going by the advice here, I would go line out from the mixpre to the R-4 Pro, and tape out from the mixpre to he LE.
This seems logical, but what practical difference is there, between doing this way and just go R-4 Pro line out to LE? Is it simply a matter of that if the R-4 dies nothing gets through to the LE?
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Exactly. I had a backup recorder set up to feed off the output of the primary recorder once and failed to confirm that the feed would stay live even if the primary was not recording. Luckily it worked out but it's not the way to do it.
I'm the one I believe you heard mention backup recorder. What I was referring to is the common practice of recording to two recorders fed from the same mixer. The primary reason originally was to safeguard against media failure. If something really bad happened to the "original" you had a second original. With digital media it's often done as a clone of the media after the fact, but with analog that would have been a second generation AND a real time transfer.
The second reason was to guard against recorder failure. This can be done with the second system mentioned before but I was referring to the double recordings.
I for instance always feed my recorder even if I feeding direct to camera. You have very little control over what happens to the sound after it hits the camera and somehow it's always your fault if the cameraman changed something that screwed up the on camera sound.
I'm the one I believe you heard mention backup recorder. What I was referring to is the common practice of recording to two recorders fed from the same mixer. The primary reason originally was to safeguard against media failure. If something really bad happened to the "original" you had a second original. With digital media it's often done as a clone of the media after the fact, but with analog that would have been a second generation AND a real time transfer.
The second reason was to guard against recorder failure. This can be done with the second system mentioned before but I was referring to the double recordings.
I for instance always feed my recorder even if I feeding direct to camera. You have very little control over what happens to the sound after it hits the camera and somehow it's always your fault if the cameraman changed something that screwed up the on camera sound.
Noiz: You have probably mentioned it in one of the several threads in which you've answered my questions (thank you many times over!), but I've heard it mentioned on quite a few places, and always been a little uncertain about it.
Using a larger mixer on a trolley, I don't see any reason other than cost for not using a second recorder for safety (if only a smaller two channel one with the mixdown or boom + the rest). If you are alone though both mixing and booming, You generally want to keep things small, lightweight, and simple, and using two recorders, plus a mixer that may and may not have adequate outputs, seems a bit cumbersome. But maybe something very small like a Sony M10 is worth considering in this case.
Using a larger mixer on a trolley, I don't see any reason other than cost for not using a second recorder for safety (if only a smaller two channel one with the mixdown or boom + the rest). If you are alone though both mixing and booming, You generally want to keep things small, lightweight, and simple, and using two recorders, plus a mixer that may and may not have adequate outputs, seems a bit cumbersome. But maybe something very small like a Sony M10 is worth considering in this case.
John Willett
Veteran
Yes - but you will still have a problem if there is a mic. problem or the MixPre dies.
The better option is to use another set of mics direct to the LE - this way one system can fail completely and you will still have a recording.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
Well unless you have a second boom person your talking about booming two mics AND carrying two mixers and two recorders? I don't think that is very practical.
At some point you have to balance the chance that something will go down at a bad time against making things so complicated that you are likely to screw something up. What are the odds that a mic will fail in mid take? Pretty miniscule.
But all of this is variable. If you have one shot and only one shot at some specific event then go for all the redundancy you can get your hands on. But for production dialog I think your asking for trouble if you make it too complicated and awkward.
John Willett
Veteran
It depends on what you are doing.
Many times I have a complete second system doing a complete parallel recording at the same time.
If it's live and unrepeatable this is the best way to go.
The second system has to be running all the time as if it isn't and there is a problem with the main system; then you won't know until it's too late.
If you are booming and this is impractical - then the back-up system should be as much a duplicate as possible. Say a single boom mic and duplicated from then on.
Only you will be able to decide based on what you are doing.
If you are videoing a wedding and miss the vows, for example, you won't be paid and may have to pay out compensation; or maybe have to pay to recreate the bit at a later date - expensive, whichever way you look at it.