How do you tell a client they have no idea what they're doing?

R

randomname

Well-known member
I have a client that I've done a good amount of corporate talking-head style video for that I've been very happy with. Lately, he's been wanting to produce some short comedic videos to use with internal meetings. While he's actually come up with some pretty good concepts, he doesn't understand that with scripted projects, you can't just have a bunch of non-actors show up for an hour and "see what we get." I know that if he would give me some time and a small budget I could turn his concepts in to some high quality work, but don't know how to start the conversation without being condescending or telling him that he has no idea what he's doing. Have any of you been in this situation before? What did you do?
 
Try it his way, and see if he likes the results. If he does, he has no taste, and you would've lost the argument anyway.
If he thinks it turned out like crap, you can ask him if he'd like to try it the "indie film way."

If he's a good client, don't condescend or tell him he doesn't know what he's doing. Your job is to solve his problems. So give him a chance to see that there is a problem to solve.
 
I feel like trying it his way is a little dangerous. Ultimately he's going to look at you and see that you've done the bad work. He's hiring you, the experienced guy, to make these things for him, so why would you let him fail? This one really depends on your relationship with the client though.

Maybe just let him know that you have some concerns doing it how he plans and let him know you have a different idea on how to go about it. Maybe tell him what having real actors would bring to the table, or how doing it your way might make the final result a bit better. If you've had bad experiences doing it how he plans, just share those experiences with him. I think in the end if you make him feel apart of the process in figuring out a better way of doing it, he'll be happy to try something different.
 
not user professionl people will make it. Probably they need to see their colleague or it will means nothing to them.
do it the easy way, small prompter on the camera, so no text to remember, change camera view within dialoge, so you can shoot each guy separately.
make it very dynamic, use slider, DOF. give a quick trainig to "actors". Make it fun for them, let them feel like they are George Clooney.
All this will probalby inflate the bill a bit but could be decisive.
If after that it is still not at required level, then you can say to the customer that his expectation are a bit high versus what he can offers.
 
It's hard to convince a customer who does not want to be convinced. The only way I see is to make clear, that you have severe doubts that non-pro actors or comedians can do that - with the exception that maybe you find some people with hidden "funny bones" by chance but that this chances are dim.

And no, you should not tell a customer that he/she has no idea what they are talking about becasue you will lose them quickly. Just play the ball into their field and make clear that to proceed their way is extremely risky and will probably not give them the result they want. And that you have reservations about going this way but will give it a try.

Whatever stunts camera wise you perform - it won't make unfunny acting go away unless you have extreme artistic/slapstick scenes which consequently are usually extremely cost intensive to produce. Catch 22.
 
I always get this - and my stock response now is always to offer pros " Sounds a great idea, I assume we're going with some pro actors - I may know a few who are not as expensive as using an agency". If you get back the "I thought we'd use our people" - then I respond "oh - ok, they're keen amateur dramatic type people are they? I guess they may be ok - not to worry" - which serves the purpose of if it goes badly, you did warn them, and if the performance is just weak, they'll know why.


One last year made me smile - two office people plus the MD doing all the invision stuff, and I had to redraft their prompter script to turn it back into what real people would say - but even then the MD asked if I could make the factory manager less toad like, and the lady wanted to know if I could slim her a bit. Both didn't like their accents and hadn't anticipated how many takes it would take, turning a half day on the plan into a full day, with big cost implication. Next time, the MD says it will be with pros!
 
RyanT said:
I feel like trying it his way is a little dangerous. Ultimately he's going to look at you and see that you've done the bad work. He's hiring you, the experienced guy, to make these things for him, so why would you let him fail? This one really depends on your relationship with the client though.
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You're assuming the client would realize bad work when he sees if. I've dealt with clients who had no taste at all, to the point where they were literally asking me to add jump cuts in a video which didn't have any, and then place a dissolve between it, because they liked the way it looked.

They even showed me examples from a very poor video that they thought looked great.
 
Many times it's not about producing a great or effective product, it's about seeing the staff doing their stick.

I have produced countless bad TV spots featuring the business owner's daughter or grandkids, and have learned over the years that sometimes you just have to smile, nod your head yes, and take their money.
 
It depends on what they want to get out of the piece. Using staff and having it come out bad may be part of the fun; part of the team building.

Rather than confronting the client, ask questions about what they intend to get out of the project. If it's 'anything goes for fun', then do it their way. If not, continue to ask questions about the project in a manner that guides them to understanding that 'see what happens' may not be the best way.
 
randomname said:
I have a client that I've done a good amount of corporate talking-head style video for that I've been very happy with. Lately, he's been wanting to produce some short comedic videos to use with internal meetings. While he's actually come up with some pretty good concepts, he doesn't understand that with scripted projects, you can't just have a bunch of non-actors show up for an hour and "see what we get." I know that if he would give me some time and a small budget I could turn his concepts in to some high quality work, but don't know how to start the conversation without being condescending or telling him that he has no idea what he's doing. Have any of you been in this situation before? What did you do?
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I've done a ton of these. They go over extremely well. Let them do it the way they want. The audience frickin' LOVES seeing themselves and their bosses on the screen, acting and being hammy. You're not making high art here, you're making an entertaining internal training video. I've done Star Trek, Young Frankenstein, Cheers, Friends, music video spoofs, lots and lots of these. Let the boss direct his people to deliver the performances he wants. He knows his people, he knows what the end result he wants is, he knows the script, he's the director (whether you want to relinquish that title or not, it's the truth) and if you do a halfway decent job, they're likely going to absolutely love the result...

... and these can pay really well. It's been close to a decade since I last did one, but the budget back then was $20 grand. Most of them were at least $10k.

Get into the spirit of it, make it really fun for them, and don't worry that you're never going to show it at Cannes; you're going to show it to them, and it's going to be a very satisfying experience when you see the reactions and the results...
 
David W. Jones said:
Many times it's not about producing a great or effective product, it's about seeing the staff doing their stick.
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Exactly.

I have produced countless bad TV spots featuring the business owner's daughter or grandkids, and have learned over the years that sometimes you just have to smile, nod your head yes, and take their money.
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Sometimes that's what the client wants, is the warm & fuzzy they get from how happy their kids or grandkids are that they're on TV. Whatever -- give the client what they want, make the client happy.
 
Paul F said:
It depends on what they want to get out of the piece. Using staff and having it come out bad may be part of the fun; part of the team building.
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My clients loved it for that reason. They always commented on what a great team-building exercise the whole project was, and how hamming it up in a video was vastly preferable to going to some seminar or conference or sitting listening to some speaker.

Rather than confronting the client, ask questions about what they intend to get out of the project. If it's 'anything goes for fun', then do it their way. If not, continue to ask questions about the project in a manner that guides them to understanding that 'see what happens' may not be the best way.
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+100,000.
 
David W. Jones said:
Many times it's not about producing a great or effective product, it's about seeing the staff doing their stick.

I have produced countless bad TV spots featuring the business owner's daughter or grandkids, and have learned over the years that sometimes you just have to smile, nod your head yes, and take their money.
Click to expand...

Totally forgot that this could be the case. Sounds like the thing to do.
 
Back in my DJ'ing days it was very similar, although not so much with involving talent (or lack thereof) and 'seeing what happens'. Clients would have all sorts of ideas on lighting, speaker placement, even handpicking every song and the order they would be played in. At that point you just wonder why they don't hook an iPod up and rent their own equipment. But, if you take a gig and are being paid your rate, you do your best to smooth things out and make the client and other's happy. Couldn't agree more with everything Barry said (coming from the music world). Make the clients happy, realize this gig isn't going to break you into the international music scene and get you a spot at Ibiza. And if for some reason I decided I didn't want to be just a jukebox for a party like a client wanted, I'd politely decline and recommend a trusted colleague. Believe very much that the worst thing to do is get into a confrontation with a client; it sucks occasionally but in the end you just have to know your gig and why you signed up in the first place, and who's paying the cash!

Glad I'm out of that scene though :tongue: Seems every field of work has similar fun client engagements/stories!
 
I always ask how do you see the end result Or what do you picture the video to look like. This way they can eleborate as to what they visualize in their head. Most have a vision.
 
I've also been in this situation many, many times, and I think you're getting some good advice on this thread, some bad advice, and some advice that can be good or bad depending on this particular situation.

For instance, if having others in the company ham it up "on the TV" will work, then by all means, do it that way. But suppose this is a Fortune 500-sized company or organization like the kinds I usually work with? And suppose the audience for the video won't know these people? Then, you've just got a crappy, amateurish video that will get the guy who hired you into trouble, and he may very well blame you. I've been there on this one. Trust me.

So, maybe if you told us a bit more about this particular situation? In the Fortune 500 situation above, my answer would be what some have already pointed out. I'd tell the person that it may very well work out using regular working folks, but that I've seen that approach go very wrong in the past, and that there are risks involved. Which is fine, of course, but I just want him to understand the risks before making the decision.

I once saw a woman FIRED from one of the world's largest pharmaceutical companies -- and fired from a well-into-six-figures job, at that -- because she screwed up a video, writing it herself and casting it herself. Needless to say, I never got hired back again, either, because somehow her incompetence was seen to be my fault. So, there are risks, and there are risks.
 
randomname said:
I have a client that I've done a good amount of corporate talking-head style video for that I've been very happy with. Lately, he's been wanting to produce some short comedic videos to use with internal meetings. While he's actually come up with some pretty good concepts, he doesn't understand that with scripted projects, you can't just have a bunch of non-actors show up for an hour and "see what we get." I know that if he would give me some time and a small budget I could turn his concepts in to some high quality work, but don't know how to start the conversation without being condescending or telling him that he has no idea what he's doing. Have any of you been in this situation before? What did you do?
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So what are you?

A producer, writer, director, cameraman, makeup artist , caterer.....

Whats your film making experience?

years, weeks, days...

Just asking ...cos you didnt say ...and hard to know what cred you might have.
 
randomname said:
I have a client that I've done a good amount of corporate talking-head style video for that I've been very happy with. Lately, he's been wanting to produce some short comedic videos to use with internal meetings. While he's actually come up with some pretty good concepts, he doesn't understand that with scripted projects, you can't just have a bunch of non-actors show up for an hour and "see what we get." I know that if he would give me some time and a small budget I could turn his concepts in to some high quality work, but don't know how to start the conversation without being condescending or telling him that he has no idea what he's doing. Have any of you been in this situation before? What did you do?
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Why don't you do what he wants. Get some people in and see how it goes. He'll see for himself what you're trying to say.

It might work - that's how impro works.
 
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