How do you judge a low-budget short film (or feature)?

The biggest and most important lesson I've learnt on this one is trading artistic vision for completion. At least I hope I complete it in time, it's not 'in the can' yet! This film will look nothing like the amazing one I saw in my mind. But I have to realise that I'm learning and through compromise the vision will always be elusive. At this point I just want to submit, no matter how cringe-worthy. Giving up would be true failure. And some things have turned out right. I've realised I've been pretty on the money with my early gear purchases. Everything I've bought is proving useful and nothing I'm missing is causing problems. That's a good feeling.
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I know exactly what you mean. Far too many times have I sacrificed my artistic vision in favor of getting it done. It has certainly been a learning experience for sure, and I for one have resolved to never sacrifice my artistic vision again. I write enough scripts that if I deem one not doable for now, I'll write another that's a bit more realistic 'til I'm able to do the hard one. Funny thing is, by the time I get to that level I usually find that I don't really like the that other script any more :P

sonofaresiii said:
Interesting discussions all around. Allow me to weigh in on a few if you don't mind--

First-time directing: Hah. I remember my first few movies with outside actors (where you actually audition and cast someone you've never met, instead of just having your friend do the thing you need). Man, I was so scared. I'm by no means an actor's director-- I'd generally rather be left alone than have a conversation with someone-- and it's so intimidating seeing all these directing workshops, seeing actors' exercises and being told over and over what you can and can't say to an actor, and if you say the wrong thing they will break down and be completely useless.
Well, it's lies. That's what I learned. Actors are really good at acting-- that's what they DO. They're not just props standing around, waiting on you to move them like a puppet master. The most important thing is to understand how an actor wants to be directed, and most of the time they'll let you know. I've done everything from talking through deep emotional journeys with an actor, to saying buzz words to remind them of past experiences, to telling them "Louder! Angrier!" to just saying "Do the thing, you'll be great." We sometimes forget that an actor wants to do well just as much as we want them to... but they all communicate differently, and at the end of the day, it's just about transferring the vision in your head to theirs. There's no right or wrong way to do it.
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So was in that boat a while ago. I completely sympathize with you, I hate making small talk and having to deal with people (I say that as non-pessimistically and non-cynically as possible). The worst is auditions, I hate having to make conversation and acquaint with people, but it's a skill I've been acquiring over time. And, I agree with you, there's a lot of hooey flying around from "educated directors" (ie students who take a directing class) that gives the impression that if you give an actor a line reading (or any other of the "bad ways to direct") all hell will break loose. This is really not true, and sometimes a line reading is the only viable method for directing that particular bit of a scene. Directing is not as scientific as it's made to seem, it's more of a practice I think.

In regards to the new conversation turn, I tend to shut off if I don't see the story going anywhere, especially in longer films. I've put on 30 minute shorts that started out looking nice and with intriguing intros but nothing happens. If I start checking my watch throughout the short I usually am not enjoying it.
 
sonofaresiii said:
I don't know Faith Granger at all, but what I've noticed with a lot of these small-budget/major success stories is that... there's usually a lot more to the story than it seems. Almost always the person had great prior connections and tons of experience you just don't hear about.
Not knocking Faith Granger in the slightest, it's amazing what she's to have accomplished... just saying as a lesson, start building those connections and experience because you WILL need them, and by the time you're releasing your movie it's too late.
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Follow THE thread for yourself. You'll see that nobody got on board her project until later. She had to do almost everything herself at the beginning including lighting, shooting and even pulling her own focus. She went ahead anyway and just figured it out, then did it. While people around here make up all kinds of excuses and reasons for everything, she never did and just DID IT!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ull-feature-film-all-by-myself-on-ZERO-budget
 
craigbowman said:
Follow THE thread for yourself. You'll see that nobody got on board her project until later. She had to do almost everything herself at the beginning including lighting, shooting and even pulling her own focus. She went ahead anyway and just figured it out, then did it. While people around here make up all kinds of excuses and reasons for everything, she never did and just DID IT!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ull-feature-film-all-by-myself-on-ZERO-budget
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Congratulations, Faith! I've been doing my own lighting, shooting, focus pulling, writing, directing, editing, visfx, sound design, scoring, for years (out of necessity, living in area where film interest/talent is very, very limited). Also, I'm not trying to be passive aggressive, but just saying. Doing it all yourself isn't that revolutionary, we do what we must to do what we love and to achieve our artistic vision. I remember reading about this previously and watching the trailer, I couldn't get into it. But that's just me.
 
craigbowman said:
Follow THE thread for yourself. You'll see that nobody got on board her project until later. She had to do almost everything herself at the beginning including lighting, shooting and even pulling her own focus. She went ahead anyway and just figured it out, then did it. While people around here make up all kinds of excuses and reasons for everything, she never did and just DID IT!

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...ull-feature-film-all-by-myself-on-ZERO-budget
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Like I said, I don't know her story and I'm not knocking her. If that's what happened, then awesome!
 
craigbowman said:
When I look at what novice filmmaker Faith Granger accomplished for $40k all I can do is sit back and smile. She continues to pile hundreds of thousands in pure profit into the bank as her four walling tour kicks sand into the face of lower tier distribution. While there are people who might have better skills in select areas, nobody I've seen from dvxuser comes close to following through on as wide a range of endevours as she has.
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Hundreds of thousands is a lot of money, and I'm not saying that it isn't true, but I am saying that it would be cool to see or read something that speaks to that. Without the movie actually going to redbox etc, even if she four-walled it everywhere, hundreds of thousands seems a bit high. I don't doubt that she's profited, but you never really know for sure until someone shows you.
 
I tend to look at the lighting - If it's there, and I mean Have they lit the film, then yes I will watch it. It doesn't matter if it's well-lit or not, all I want to see is that they've put some thought and effort into it. If someone wants me to watch their film/trailer and no one paid any attention to the lighting what so ever, that to me means they haven't taken it seriously, and the it's not worth my time. If they have, and it sucks, that just means I have some constructive feedback to give.
 
iamWZA said:
..my 550D (I plan to shoot my film on a C300)
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Thats so much the first error!

-making excuses why you cant do it now
-thinking that the camera is in any way relevant (compared to good mics, proper support, lighting bla bla .. the 550 is a great camera!)

Of course one needs to define 'my first film'
If you already have done '10 crappy shorts' that didnt 'count' then maybe a half decent camera is coming into the field of view - if it really is your first short then .. just use the 550


S
 
Gary Huff said:
I would argue that you should make a bunch of shorts first instead of a feature-length film. That way you get your learning in and only have to take up a few days of people's time who aren't getting paid instead of weeks and weeks.
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Very very very much agreed.
 
David Jimerson said:
Faith didn't wait until she thought she could do it perfectly, dude. She just went out and did it.
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Yeah, but -- and this is a big one -- Faith was also good. Look at the cinematography in Deuce of Spades -- it's really pretty good. She knew what she was doing, she wasn't a total novice. It may have been her first feature, but it's so much better than any other "novice" or "first-timer" feature that I've seen, that it's not even comparable.

I don't know Faith's background prior to starting work on Deuce of Spades, but I would presume she has a pretty impressive list of shorts and professional work on her resume. I would be floored and flabbergasted if she was one of those folks who woke up and said "I think I'll try filmmaking" and started work on DoS and that's what resulted. Note, not that DoS is Oscar-worthy material, but it's sooooooo much better than most first-timers, it's clearly obvious why she's achieved the success she has, and more power to her.
 
Kholi said:
Hundreds of thousands is a lot of money, and I'm not saying that it isn't true, but I am saying that it would be cool to see or read something that speaks to that.
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Well, you can read what she said. She said at one point that she'd directly sold over 11,000 DVDs, at $20 apiece. That's $220,000. And when I read that post, that was, oh, maybe six months to a year ago maybe? So yes, she's done okay with DoS.

Without the movie actually going to redbox etc, even if she four-walled it everywhere, hundreds of thousands seems a bit high. I don't doubt that she's profited, but you never really know for sure until someone shows you.
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She did show us. :thumbsup:
 
Gary Huff said:
Plus, I'm curious as to what percentage of DVXUser members currently own the DVD?
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I bought some for myself back when they were all numbered and autographed by Faith and the cast, but bought a lot since to give to select people I know in the industry who were just completely amazed at the quality of what she was able to accomplish for peanuts.
 
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Based on this topic I'd like some critique on my description of a film I uploaded on Vimeo a few weeks ago. There were a number of technical aspects of the small production which could have been added into the title, but I wanted to keep it simple, and of a non technical nature:-

"The Friend I Once Knew


27,000 hours from first contact, the human population is dessicated. A few men survive, secluded in rural areas of the UK. How long will they have to wait before the new race move on to another planet? What life will be left after they are gone?


Shot on location Leigh Woods, Bristol, UK


Written and Directed by Richard Coleman and Richard Gale


A Camera:- Richard Coleman
B Camera:- Richard Gale


Special Make-Up EFX:- Richard Gale
Editing:- Richard Gale


Sound:- Melting_Bloke and Mistaire Reinhardt


Man:- Richard Coleman
Mid Assimilation:- Richard Gale"

for those interested, please search it on vimeo. Let me know if it was worth the 2 mins, and if the description here is accurate.
 
Barry_Green said:
Yeah, but -- and this is a big one -- Faith was also good. Look at the cinematography in Deuce of Spades -- it's really pretty good. She knew what she was doing, she wasn't a total novice. It may have been her first feature, but it's so much better than any other "novice" or "first-timer" feature that I've seen, that it's not even comparable.

I don't know Faith's background prior to starting work on Deuce of Spades, but I would presume she has a pretty impressive list of shorts and professional work on her resume. I would be floored and flabbergasted if she was one of those folks who woke up and said "I think I'll try filmmaking" and started work on DoS and that's what resulted. Note, not that DoS is Oscar-worthy material, but it's sooooooo much better than most first-timers, it's clearly obvious why she's achieved the success she has, and more power to her.
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Yeah, but the point is -- she didn't get good by waiting to be good before she tried.
 
Barry_Green said:
Well, you can read what she said. She said at one point that she'd directly sold over 11,000 DVDs, at $20 apiece. That's $220,000. And when I read that post, that was, oh, maybe six months to a year ago maybe? So yes, she's done okay with DoS.


She did show us. :thumbsup:
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Wellll... when I say "show us" I mean something a bit more (way more) absurd than just telling us. There are a few members here that can sort of prove out their stories a few different ways, Faith's great success seems to be contained in a post saying how many DVDs sold.

Technically, anyone could say the same thing and who could actually argue with them?

I think the only reason I responded with that, though, was to encourage deeper investigations. Personally, I've learned that if you can't find something that speaks to the claims, it's neither true nor false, and judge accordingly whether it's a case to be presented as fact or not.

What is REALLY fact, though, is that she did spend her time delivering (read:finishing) a feature length motion picture using whatever hands that would help. There's no doubt about that, and I do not doubt that she's profited at all!

NOTE: I realize that it may come off as if I'm not also celebrating Faith's success, and that's not it. Not by a longshot. Finance and return is one area of filmmaking that I've become fairly critical about, because there just isn't enough rock-solid information out there for people to digest.

I'm never intending to call anyone a liar, absolutely not, just that personally I'll take it with a grain of salt if I can't find any literature or some sort of proof to the claim. Press release, PR, whatever works.

I think what Faith did for herself was extraordinary, and there aren't many people with that sort of ambition (she did a period piece, come on) and assertiveness, passion, and more.
 
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Barry_Green said:
Yeah, but -- and this is a big one -- Faith was also good. Look at the cinematography in Deuce of Spades -- it's really pretty good. She knew what she was doing, she wasn't a total novice. It may have been her first feature, but it's so much better than any other "novice" or "first-timer" feature that I've seen, that it's not even comparable.

I don't know Faith's background prior to starting work on Deuce of Spades, but I would presume she has a pretty impressive list of shorts and professional work on her resume. I would be floored and flabbergasted if she was one of those folks who woke up and said "I think I'll try filmmaking" and started work on DoS and that's what resulted. Note, not that DoS is Oscar-worthy material, but it's sooooooo much better than most first-timers, it's clearly obvious why she's achieved the success she has, and more power to her.
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I'd say she's definitely a natural, and I haven't even watched the feature. Just the trailer.

If you guys remember when she first started posting, she did a short film before the feature (just one) to learn cinematography, editing, etc, then jumped right into the feature. I don't remember her ever having done a short film of her own before that first one.

The short film was very basic, and I remember it revolving around a father and son's relationship. She asked a lot of questions, got a lot of answers, and used that as her springboard.
 
Gary Huff said:
Plus, I'm curious as to what percentage of DVXUser members currently own the DVD?
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xD Actually, I wasn't too curious about that. The last time I sawr DVXusers snatch up a DVD by the boatloads was that DVX100 shortfilm by Alex Ferrari. Can't remember the name of it, but heck, even I got a copy floatin' around somewhere.
 
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