How do you guys handle sound within Vegas 6.0 ?

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plainman007

Well-known member
I mean we will be shooting a short film with the DVX102B. This will be edited on Vegas 6. Then Burnt onto a DVD. What should be my workflow for the sound ? I would like a good sound. I would like burn the dvd as dolby ac3 stereo. I want good clear sound. Should i record dialogue live ?? If so what eqpt ? Or should i record the rough voice at location (maybe even just using the on cam mic) and then respeak it over in post prod while watching the video ? And use the ambience noises from sound effects cds etc. What do you'll usually do ? Im a newbie in this sound thing so please explain at a basic level ?

Boom or rough record thru cam mic and then voice over at studio ?
Is it very difficult to rerecord by speaking again at the studio to lip sync ?

Alos since im gonna be workin in vegas can all this be done within the vegas framework itself ?
and how ?
 
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I highly recommend spending some time reading through the audio section of this site. There's some fantastic information there.

With that said, I really recommend trying to get the best production sound you can. Trying to fix it later is a giant pain.
 
Try to record the dialogs at the set during filming. Not using the internal microphone, but a high quality (shotgun) microphone on a boom pole, connected to your DVX via XLR cables. I've worked like that with an experienced sound guy, who had one or two microphones connected to his portable mixer. The mixer was connected to my DVX via XLR. I found the sound very good, and I had to use it for a short film (edited with Vegas, burnt to dvd in 5.1 AC3 with DVD-Architect). The sound quality was the result of this experienced sound man with the right equipment, but also to the quality of the audio circuit of the DVX. For good, affordable microphones I can recommend Audio Technica and Sennheiser.

When editing on the timeline, I add subtle sound fx. Like ambience sound of a room or location, but also other sounds where needed. I find it important that the set sound and the added sounds fit together, that you hear one kind of 'tone'. Adding 8 bit free sounds fx from internet will kill your soundmix, when you have 16 bit clean dialog recorded at the set.
 
HorseFilms said:
I highly recommend spending some time reading through the audio section of this site. There's some fantastic information there.

With that said, I really recommend trying to get the best production sound you can. Trying to fix it later is a giant pain.
Click to expand...

Well said. As for workflow, you have to find what works best for you.
 
I did post in the audio section. I should admit sound is a little more intangible than video. And therefore very hard to understand. Though they are a breeze for computers to handle and arent as processor intensive. Anyway most of the topics there are technically indepth and about specific filters and what not.

I dont know anything about sound, so some hints would help. Like should i buy a mic and suspend it from a pole for sound recording. Or do most of you rerecord the voice again in your studio ? Which is the easiest route ? Also im not talking about a specific problem that needs fixing. I dont have any problems. I havent even started with it yet. But i know the video guy will ultimately come out there and just record using the cam mic. I want to know if there are better options.

Please see my heading. I have asked how you guys handle sound. You dont have to give me professional secrets. But just something as simple as do youll work with just the cam mike and get away with it ?Or do youll use a cordless lapel mic on the talent ? in which case where do you plug the reciever ? Into the cam ? But what if my cam is a moving shot ? These are the basic elements i want to know thats all. Just a few lines from you will help. Thanks.

My best option i was looking at was buying a shure UHF wireless lav mic and concealing it under the talents shirt. Ive just read on some other site that lav neck mics cut the echoing effect of interior sound recordings and help with reasonable sound in outdoor shoots too. If youll dont want to say anything about your setups at least tell me if my idea will work or is it downright wrong ?
 
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1- Jay Rose's book Great Sound for Digital Video is very good and worth the money ($30). See dplay.com for ordering info.

2- For a short film, you should get a boom mic. If your camera has a mini-jack input, something like a Rode Videomic and the accessory boompole will work. If your cam has XLR input, you could get the mini-plug to XLR adapter. This should get you in the door. You need a decent set of headphones too (the closed kind that fits over your entire ear is good; these shouldn't cost that much).

If you have more money, you can of course rent / buy better gear.

3- AGC on consumer cameras is bad. Hopefully you can manually set levels. What camera are you using?

4- The boom will give you the *best* sound as long as you can get it within 2 feet. And the background needs to be quiet enough (i.e. no airplanes flying overhead, or trains or subway cars). You should try to boom as much audio as possible.

Beyond that, you need to look at your script + storyboard (if you have it). Some shots may be tricky to capture with a boom, so ideally you'd have something else.
Shots with multiple people talking
Shots where you can't get the boom very close; you may be able to record seperate sound if you can't see their lips well.

5- Wireless lav doesn't sound as good as boom mics, and you can only get 1 person at a time with it. They also aren't 100% reliable (clothing rustle, interference, etc.). The cheaper stuff isn't as good quality and not as reliable as the more expensive wireless options.

With wireless, you have to make it sound decent in post... i.e. add reverb so it has the sound of that environment.

6- You can do ADR... Jay Rose's book outlines this. However, it is very time consuming! You should try to get good sound to begin with.

7- Learn how to use the boom mic right. If it's a novice operator, they should have headphones and be able to hear the boom.

8- In post:
Use the compressor to even out levels.
Do your mix.
Apply noise reduction as necessary.

Jay Rose's book does go over all this stuff.
 
HI Glen,

We will be shooting on the DVX102b pal.

Glen the problem is im not from the USA or UK either.
Im at Srilanka. A small island. I cannot and dont have access to the kind of books you are refering me to.

Another point is we cant afford to buy expensive equipment and keep them with us since we are not into this business. We are just getting in. We are actually a live event team. Because we cant get editors our jobs very quickly etc. I decided we go for our own software based NLE so that we can make projection videos very quickly. Otherwise outsourcing all this is a big pain considering that for us render time etc is no problem. We dont mind some investment. But this is only ancillary to our main business. If this would be generating revenue even in a small way we wont mind plunking down cash for the best equipment. Basically I need to product short videos which will be cut to dvd and projected on a giant (8'x6') screen during our live shows. This is where im trying to learn as much as possible about editing. Sorry to explain at length. I felt its necessary for you to understand the perspective of my work to suggest the right thing. Now most of my videos involve only one person speaking. Because its a one man show. We now need to produce some small segments of THE performer talking in some ambiences (greenscreen room/outdoor/indoor) but its all only one performer. ALWAYS. So i figured a cordless lapel would be an investment that we could use on our live shows as well while he speaks on-stage. So can i use something like shure UHF. Or what do u suggest,, now that ive explained the scenario ? Like u said i also assumed any distant shots where the lips cant be seen should be easy to VO in the studio. But it cant be a shot where he moves closer and closer to the camera ? Another option is to have some sorta recording device on his person and then import that sound into the timeline and slide it in position to sync. O i dont wanna make this a long story. Im waiting for your feedback. Thanks.

PS: Another problem is we are gonna be shooting a lot of street stuff. And a boom would attract too much attention too. Just a cam and we can jump out of the van. Shoot and jump in before a crowd gathers. And another thing is according to the law we should be able to shoot on a public outdoor area as long as we arent obstructing normal life in anyway. But our corrupt cops will for any reason stop us from even doing whats perfectly legal without even knowing the laws themselves. Its a 3rd world island out here.
 
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Somehow I thought you wanted something for independent filmmaking (which isn't the case).

In your case, I think a wireless lav would work. I don't know which of the low-cost models would be your best bet. You might also want something that runs off AA or AAA batteries and not 9Vs (because the cost of batteries will add up!).

2- If someone is speaking on a podium, you might want to run your own *wired* microphone to the podium. This will avoid problems with interference, a bad feed from their sound board, etc.

I don't know too much here.
 
Hello,

Glen. May i ask when you shoot videos. What do you do for sound. You use the onboard mic which is in the cam ? Or do you go boom ?
 
Hi Horse > I tried the audio section. A little too high ended for me. It always gives me th feeling im in the wrong section. LOL. I guess its a beginners jump. Indoor is no problem. See some of them here have said leave it to a professional. I hired professionals to get my work done on earlier projects. The sound they recorded was with some advanced mic. Sounded like a bathroom echo. Anyway thats why we want to do it ourselves. NOT THE ECHO. I mean proper sound. Ours shoots are more like a COPS reality show type. What do they use for those kinda shows ? Boom or on-cam mic ?
 
What you should do depends on the situation.

For narrative, you likely want to get boom sound since it sounds natural. Lavs sound like lavs, which is ok for news and corporate.

You could also have the person hold a microphone... this will give you good sound and is fine if the person is speaking towards the camera.

You should get good sound if the microphone is within 2 feet of the person. More than that, you're not guaranteed to get good sound.

2- Cops may have a shotgun microphone mounted on the camera, or they might have an audio person with a boom. I think they may just be using the camera sound.

When they aren't getting very good sound, they use subtitles. In post, they probably try to fix things with noise reduction.

3- In your case, will a wireless handheld microphone or wireless lav work?
Is it ok for the talent to be holding the microphone? Are you ok with the lavalier sound?

If not, can you get a boom mic within 2 feet of the person speaking? (It seems like you can't.)

And if not, you're not guaranteed good sound.

The next best thing to do is to put a microphone on your camera. If shooting outdoors, a shotgun microphone is the best. Something like a AT897 or AT4073a (audio technica). You'll need a good windscreen and shockmount for the microphone.

If shooting indoors, a hypercardioid microphone is the best.

If you do both and can't switch microphones that often, then get something like the Sanken CS-1.
 
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Oh gosh looks like ill have to buy an assortments of mics which might cost as much as the camera.

Glen, its a magic video. No mic holding possible.

Will just voice overing in a sound damped room suffice. Can we do this using a mic attached to the audio card of the system and record within vegas ?
 
Will just voice overing in a sound damped room suffice. Can we do this using a mic attached to the audio card of the system and record within vegas ?

You're describing ADR. It is very time consuming and generally *should be avoided*.

2- Now I'm not sure anymore about what you're trying to do. But it sounds like a wireless lav would work for you???
 
Yes Glen, Im also leaning towards the wireless lav ?

I know they tend to sound a little tinny ? But then i cant help it.

I dont mind spending under 200$ for a sound mic. But its got to be one. And preferably something that i can use for stage shows too. This leaves us only with cordless lav. But my confusion is ...what do i do when i have a shot where the artist is talking and walking down the street ? I mean the reciever of UHF lav wont be as small to hang it onto the camera man and it needs power. What will i do then ?
 
There are wireless lav receives which are small and run off battery power. You might be able to velcro or tape it to the top of the camera (or anywhere else on the camera).
 
plainman007 said:
Yes Glen, Im also leaning towards the wireless lav ?

I know they tend to sound a little tinny ? But then i cant help it.

I dont mind spending under 200$ for a sound mic. But its got to be one.
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If your budget is under $200 and you need something wireless, I would highly recommend the Audio-Technica Pro88W. It’s $169.95 USD at B&H. The only caveat is that it’s VHF not UHF which means there is more of a chance of interference but a UHF diversity system is going to cost $500 so it’s not an option for you.

This Pro88W sounds great. Not tinny at all. I’ve used it for VASST training videos. I’ve used it in short movies when I can’t get a boom close to the talent. It’s a good inexpensive solution that is camera mountable.

~jr
 
Johnny > Hey thats good news !
In my country those are cheap.
I know a guy who sells shure and audiotechnica !
All are under USD 200 in my currency.
Even the UHF ones.
At least somethings cheap in my country. LOL.
So UHF would be a better way to go right ?

Wow im elated that it doesnt sound tinny too Johhny. The if i buy a UHF one im sure that wont sound tinny either right ? Whats your opinion on Shure products ?

In your last line you have said its camera mountable ...your reffering to the mic itself or the reciever ?
 
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UHF is definitely better if you can afford it. Make sure it is a true diversity system (i.e., dual channel). This means is constantly transmits on two channels and seamlessly uses the better signal of the two.

On the Pro88W the receiver is camera mountable. It comes with a hot shoe mount. You can buy it with two different mics. The one I pointed to in my post has the better AT829 mic. There is also a $99 version which comes with the cheaper ATR35 mic. This mic is obviously not as good.

I haven’t use Sure wireless systems so I can’t comment on them but I did play Rock & Roll 5 nights a week on the road for 10 years and I still have my original Sure SM58. You just can kill that thing. So they build quality mics that last.

~jr
 
I did my horrorfest short with a Senheiser mic taped inside the car. The mic was $99 at guitar center. It worked pretty well.

I also know a lot of people that participated in the Baltimore 48hr film fest who just used the onboard mic. But, I wouldn't recommend that.

When I filmed my documentary interviews I'd put a Shure SM58 cardoid mic on a mic stand in front of the person being interviewed (but out of frame) and that worked well too. Again, the mic was $79 and the stand was like $25 (which can double as a boom in a pinch).
 
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